Blasphemy and the Quran

[Ron T. Storm]

I like Wallace and Gromit. I don't worship them and I certainly wouldn't kill for them. lol.

On a serious note I feel a lot of sadness for those that died and also for the Muslim community as this is another attack on them from lunies. A generally peace loving religion (yes I know it has some bad shit in the Koran but so does the Old Testament).

I see the killings as an act of disillusioned youths.

Lack of love. Love is everything and without it we become savages.

[frankthring]

This has been an interesting and somewhat more fair-minded sharing of
opinions than we usually get on bgafd.
I would add, Sam, that its all very well to quote relevant parts of the Quran
at us, but the problem with Militant Islam is that these cults within the
religion don`t interpret the good book at its face value, or even in simplistic
terms.
In particular, the re-definition of Islam got going with Sheikh Ibn Taymiyya
in the 13th century ; he was not prepared to accept the reasonable "four
schools" consensus way of interpreting the Quan (called taqlid), that grew up
in the 9th century. Taymiyya defined himself as a "mujtahid" who by virtue
of informed reasoning, had the right to define the laws of Islam. He
especially argued that the temporal leader (amir) should only govern with the
agreement of the religious leader (imam) as in modern-day Iran. Declaring
the Prophet Muhammad`s division of jihad to be inauthentic, on the grounds
that it contradicted the word of God in the Quran, it was this man, the
grand-daddy of Muslim fanatics, who defined jihad in strictly literal terms as
an unrelenting war against all who stood in Islam`s way.
Fast forward past waves of fanatical Muslims attacking the West and even
reaching the gates of Vienna twice, leads us to 1702 and the birth of Abd-Al-
Wahhab whose own brand of blinkered fanaticism is that which inspires
90% of Muslim hardliners today. He even argued for the killing of all Sunni
Muslims, who make up half the faith, and that he alone was a Muslim and
all other thinkers were idolators.
My point is that Islam and Christianity in their own ways are perfectly fair
ways of feeling closer to God and set out reasonable social values about
how to live our lives. Re-interpreted by men like Wahhabi fanatics or
militant evangelical sects in America, or Catholic Knights Templar in the
13th century the two religions can only breed hate under these people
since hatred of all others who think differently is the tenet of their faith.

[David Johnson]

"My point is that Islam and Christianity in their own ways are perfectly fair
ways of feeling closer to God and set out reasonable social values about
how to live our lives. Re-interpreted by men like Wahhabi fanatics or
militant evangelical sects in America, or Catholic Knights Templar in the
13th century the two religions can only breed hate under these people
since hatred of all others who think differently is the tenet of their faith."

I agree with this Frank. People of all faiths and no faith should stand together against the vile acts we are seeing in France. The issue is how to prevent the interpretation of both Christian and Islamic Holy Books in such a literal way which is the basis/justification used for these horrific acts.

Given that the overwhelming proportion of believers in the likes of France, UK etc. are law abiding, it is not helpful for many on here and elsewhere to talk about hating Islam. That merely demonises believers and can be used by the far right as the basis of legitimising revenge attacks. The focus should be on those individuals who are preaching hatred and division based on literal interpretations and those who have been taken in or brainwashed by these "holy men".

[Sam Slater]

[quote]My point is that Islam and Christianity in their own ways are perfectly fair
ways of feeling closer to God and set out reasonable social values about
how to live our lives.[/quote]

All very nice but Islam and Christianity have given rise to wars, mistrust and hatred over the centuries and we can see why in the texts.

And let's forget about 'misinterpretations'. I've said before and I'll say it again, if anyone says they know what is a misinterpretation and what is not, they are lying. If there is a God or Allah, only they can know for sure. That leaves us all -believers and non-believers alike- guessing.

There is no one of any age, race, gender, nationality or bloody IQ level that can come to me and honestly say they categorically know the mind of God.

What we do know about 'interpretations' is that 78% of British Muslims polled think blasphemy should be a criminal offense. That's an 'interpretation' -wrong or right- that needs to change.

Islam needs reform from within. And there are Muslims willing to step up but are fighting a losing battle against traditionalists within their communities and liberals in mainstream society who are more interested in looking hip and cool rather than standing with what should be their Muslim partners in arms.

[David Johnson]

"And let's forget about 'misinterpretations'. I've said before and I'll say it again, if anyone says they know what is a misinterpretation and what is not, they are lying. If there is a God or Allah, only they can know for sure. That leaves us all -believers and non-believers alike- guessing."

Please pass on your knowledge to the 99.9% etc of the British Muslim population, who are not about to kill a non-believer, that they are following the wrong path and suffering from a misinterpretation. I am sure they will be interested, if not entertained, by your "interpretation".

"What we do know about 'interpretations' is that 78% of British Muslims polled think blasphemy should be a criminal offense"

Ah yes, I remember hearing this one thrown out on TV today without any context. I remember thinking at the time "Sam Slater will love that statistic".

As part of an NOP poll, sixty-eight percent supported the arrest and prosecution of those British people who "insult Islam". Seventy-eight percent supported punishment for the people who published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed.

As with all opinion polls they should come with a health warning in terms of how the question was asked in what context etc.

It is also worth pointing out that the NOP polls I referred to, date from 2006 when there was still a law against blasphemy on the statute books.

Alas for Muslims, blasphemy only covered the Christian faith so I guess they were interested in some kind of parity.

I have no idea what percentage of committed CHristians would like to see a blasphemy law. Got any data available, Sam?