Reasons Why I Hate The U.S Govt.

[Deuce Bigolo]

Well said Spook

Inncoent until Proven Guilty cannot be something we take for granted

As we all well know its now a case of Gulity until proven Innocent

Souns very much like a FASCIST RACISM to me

If any of us was held for 3 years without charge then let go free we
but placed under sureillance and pass port conviscated we wouldn't be happy little campers now would we?

This is the reality...even when they can't prove their case the authorities still supsect

Hitler wouldn't have been any worse IMHO

cheers
B....OZ

[Red Triangle]

Last night's Newsnight had a report about a British resident currently being held in Guantanamo (and had also been given up to Libyan "interrogaters" by the US) is being held there in what is a serious case of mistaken identity. The idea you can be tortured until you admit to the crime your torturers want you to be guilty of is abhorrent in a Western society. How can we allow this?

There's not a lot we can do about the US (did you see the C4 doc about the brutal regimes in US criminal prisons?) but we can hold our own government under a microscope. We have an election coming up and a government that is seriously changing the values of our liberal democracy.

They say Osama wants to destroy the Western way of life. He doesn't need to bother as our own governments are doing that for him and a lot our MPs are complicit in this.

The fact that we may soon have a law that will allow anyone to be arrested on mere suspicion, that will allow you to be detained indeinitely (taken to its logical extreme this could be until the day you die), and never know the so-called evidence against you so you can never ever challenge it - it is astonishing that we have our own British MPs trying to push this through as law. Any MP who has voted for this law, regardless of their political party does not deserve any of our votes at this coming election.

[Holden MacGroyn]

IBS, it matters little wether you clicked the link or not, I posted the main body of the article in my initial post.

Secondly, if you are not aware of my tourettic nature, tough.

Thirdly, don't take offence just because you find yourself living over there.

Finally, if my comments stopped you clicking the link, then you've managed to adopt the "I don't like what you said, so I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears" approach to life like the 51% voting majority of burger munching slack jawed xenophobes.

Next you'll be closing in on 30stone, wearing some leary shirt, saying "Gee", living in your fridge and suing people for breathing.

[diplodocus]

utter bollocks, if someone attached wires to your nads you'd tell them any old shit to stop them. If anything info gained from torture is counter productive as it detracts time from real intelligence as people waste time trying to filter out the shite that comes from people under torture

[Deuce Bigolo]

How I wish the IRAQui scientist defectors had been interrogated we might not have had a war

If only they're were a truth serum like that in "true Lies"

It would be so simple

cheers
B....OZ

[Illinoisblue]

It was a tongue in cheek remark, of course I read what you posted.

I am of course aware of your 'tourettic' outbursts, doesn't mean I have to agree with them though. (you could at least be funny or original about it - that old 'fat stupid americans' line? never heard that one before).


I only stick my fingers in my ears when it's juvenile abuse, like this -
"51% voting majority of burger munching slack jawed xenophobes"

[Holden MacGroyn]

I'm only ragging with you dude.

I know you don't eat burgers like they're going out of date and I also know that you don't sit on an electric trike to get you to the fridge from your lazyboy armchair.

Actually, and in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I went to a very U.S'y school, dated So-Cal chicks as a teen and still have family over there.

So you see, I don't hate them all, just 99.9% of the fat sweaty, humvee driving pot bellied swines.

Heckling is very bad manners on TV shows by the way.
Some fat cunt went on stage and said, "I've lost 200 pounds"...the audience erupted in applause and then lost their shit when I yelled "No you haven't, it's right there around your waist ya fat bastard."
I was hoping the clapping would have drowned my voice.

[Officer Dibble]

Typical response from mart ? negative heckling from the sidelines, but never putting a counter argument, in case someone like Officer Dibbs picks it apart and makes him look a right nanna.


Officer Dibbs

[Officer Dibble]

Bollocks, hey? Well then, let?s say, just for instance, that a serious western intelligence agency did come to you with a warning of an imminent atrocity. They tell you that the info has come via a third party, through the use of torture. Unreliable, sure - but in their professional opinion, on this occasion, it was extremely credible - you would have no choice; you would have to postpone the match, close the shopping centre or ground the flight. Anything else would not be an option. Yes, it would cause inconvenience if it turned out to be nonsense, but if you didn?t take it seriously, if you did nothing, and it turned out to be true?

So you see, it?s not bollocks, is it? It?s a real dilemma that western governments have to face. And no matter how poncy and ethical they proclaim themselves and their policies to be in public they will (have to) adopt pragmatic policies in private.

Hey, I don?t condone torture and neither do I suggest it should be used as a matter of course during interrogations, but the situation is not black and white. We are now entering the age of 'the suitcase nuke' and there may come a day, in the not to distant future, when we are all grateful to the security policy of some unpleasant third world regime.


Officer Dibbs

[Officer Dibble]

"You are firstly assuming that all people who are tortured are all, without exception, dangerous criminals and that their torture is the only possible way to prevent an imminent terrorist attack.

You are assuming that torture is not a completely pointless way of gathering "evidence" - a couple of hours in the right conditions and Officer Dibble would be pleading with the interrogators to believe that he was responsible for 9/11 and the Bali bombings and would have just shopped all his friends and family with made up tales of terrorist atrocities that they were just about to commit.

You are assuming that torture is not the very sort of behaviour that acts as a recruiting officer for terrorist organisations."

I assume nothing of the sort. I was simply putting forward a hypothetical situation where diplodocus would probably be forced to eat his words. I do understand your point about people being tortured tending to say whatever it takes to make it stop, but all the same? As for the other charges laid against me ? like those of being?

1. Amoral: Amoral? Well, with a totally clear conscience, I would have to plead guilty as charged.

2. Gullible: Gullible? Not guilty your spookship. I?ve done a reasonable stretch at the University of life and I reckon I?ve seen it all. I know that all politicians are professional liars ? If they told the truth no one would vote for them (The truth is quite often uncomfortable and Joe Bloggs on the street just doesn?t want to hear it). I know that the mainstream media have their own agendas ? even the public media (BBC). They all, as a matter of course, carefully select the stories they will cover and present then in such a context and light that will best advance those agendas. I also know that 90% of those coming to you with business propositions are full of shite ? they're either complete charlatans out to stiff you, or plausible, but lightweight, divis bursting with enthusiasm, who love the sound of their own voice, and will cost you dear in time and money if you take their stupid hair-brained ideas even slightly seriously. There will be elements of truth in all the things that these people say to you, but wise guys know that they should first collect all the data, look at it from different angles, factor in life experience and human nature, then read between the lines.

3. Obtuse: Obtuse, moi? What, after months (or is it years?) of deftly parrying your ill-considered interjections and rebuttals? Are you sure the converse is not true? Hey, I?m the sharpest chav on the block mate ? I?ve read books.


Officer Dibbs