HIV spread and the brutalising of women.

[golostruda]

Can I make six general points here, then go back to my bottle of really unpleasant 82.5% Bulgarian absinthe, ta...
(1) Max Hardcore and Rob Black are a misnomer, a seperate argument. They are at the extremes of US porn the same way people like Vivid are at the opposite extreme. Let?s stick to the middle ground, otherwise it?s like debating political parties while focusing on the Maoists and the BNP.
(2) Conversely, saying ?supporting censorship means supporting the censors? is the logic of the loony bin. It?s the exact opposite. The only way to keep decent non-abusive porn legal is by stamping down on filthy abusive porn. You want to live in a world where you can watch pigs fucking children? I don?t want to live in that world, and all you acheive by trying to push things in your direction is forcing the powers that be to push back harder the other way. And then you have lost me, ?cause if it means losing your pig-kid flicks then I?ll happily lose cumshots from R18. By pushing the envelope like that it is in fact you who is "siding with the enemy?, to use your playground terminology.
(3) I do not want to see women getting fucked up the arse. To me it makes the same amount of sense as buying a four poster bed then choosing to sleep in the bath.
(4) In my experience the vast majority of punters hold the same views re the above as me. Sadly, arrogant film-makers don?t care what the punters think as they are just trying to outdo each other with infantile US jock ?hazing? style abuse of women.
(5) If a porn director really wanted to do something different, they wouldn?t make a film with three cocks in an arse and two in a pussy (rather than their rival?s 3 in pussy 2 in arse scene) but one that doesn?t include anal, doesn?t include verbal or physical abuse, doesn?t treat the women as fucking Victorian freakshow exhibits and has at least a parity of control.
(6) If porn directors and producers actually gave a flying stuff what the punters wanted - rather than were led by their own filthy Jackass style gross-out competition - several people would not currently have the HIV virus.
End of post. Back to absinthe.

[eroticartist]

The enemy is rearing its ugly head again saying that "the only way to keep decent non abusive porn legal" is more censorship. We have had more censorship here in the UK than any other state, daring to call itself a democracy in the world. The use of the word "decent" rings a bell in the speeches of all authoritarians and censors of the past and present.

They want to protect us all and make us like them. The excuse for censorship is always decency. He would be glad to "lose cumshots for R18". I am a film-maker who depicted ejaculation and sperm when explicit sex was illegal in films. I also like to depict anal sex and DP. Why because the images are so erotic to me. I always make films for myselfand I like to watch my own films best!

So this decent person does not "want to see women being fucked up the arse. Well sorry I love to see women having anal sex. It is dirty and naughty! Also it happens a lot in real life and lots of women love it. As a realist I reserve the right to depict any thing. Of course the enemy always back up their augument by mentioning child porn and bestiality which are both illegal and obscene per se., so we don't need censorship to stop those.

It is never legitimate in a democacy to exercise censorship for adults unless it can be proven that real harm would result. If the viewers imitate mainstream pornography I doubt very much whether anyone would be harmed. Conversely I feel that pornographers are making the world a better place. Japan, for example, has some of the most brutal porn in the world but it also has one of the lowest rates for violence against women and sexual offences such as rape.

Look around the world at the countries where the censorship of sexual imagery is at its most repressive then you will find an authoritarian regime. I love freedom not repression and censorship

Performers should be more careful and hygienic but we don't know how the present cases were contracted. It is a rare case and when one thinks of the six thousand people dying a year of HIV related diseases in Africa then this should bring the present scare into perspective. All film-makers and performers should realise that HIV is easy to avoid. There is no epidemic in the industry. Just be more hygienic and careful and insist on valid thirty day tests.

Most pornographers are voyeurs and "punters" themselves. Contemporary pornography, since the relaxation of the ban on depicting explicit sex, is not dangerous but has been liberating for men and women here in the UK. There is a sea change in the the public's moral attitude towards it. People are sick of violent films and want more and more porn. Women are treated more equally now that they have been brought down off the romantic pedestal and a lot of men have realised that women are just like men when it comes to sex and they often enjoy the kind of sex that is depicted in mainstrean contemporary pornography.

Finally pornography is now the most popular entertainment on earth.

Mike Freeman

[woodgnome]

probably one of the best posts ever made about porn on a message board.

(pace tomsk)

[marcusallen]

Mike,
I beg to differ inasmuch that without a certain amount of censorahip, it would be "open season" and I'm sure that you and most others would agree that we have to have a line drawn somewhere.

At the end of the day, what is abuse?

We all agree that sexual acts between consenting adults is OK, however, should we encourage the minority who assume that because they see it on film it is perfectly normal and cannot take a no-no for an answer?

Your regard for anal -and that of others, male and female,- is alien to me, but that is purely personal. BUT, the activities listed herein are NOT normal in my book.

Furthermore, have we not a social duty/conscience that transcends pecuniary advantage?

[cillaodain]

"As a realist I reserve the right to depict any thing. Of course the enemy always back up their augument by mentioning child porn and bestiality which are both illegal and obscene per se., so we don't need censorship to stop those."

You reserve the right to depict any thing, and then go on to tell us what you should not have the right to depict. That's not good logic.

"If the viewers imitate mainstream pornography I doubt very much whether anyone would be harmed."

What is "mainstream pornography"? There are plenty of things represented in pornography which could harm people in various ways. The usual defence is that it is all pretence.

"Women are treated more equally now that they have been brought down off the romantic pedestal and a lot of men have realised that women are just like men when it comes to sex and they often enjoy the kind of sex that is depicted in mainstrean contemporary pornography."

Again, the question: what is mainstream pornography? I suspect that most women don't like DP or DAP, being pissed on, being slapped hard, heavy bondage, lots of other things which are done in porn. I think most would not want their love partners to withdraw and cum on their faces or bodies. Let's not fool ourselves that what often happens to women in porn is what women in general want.