HIV spread and the brutalising of women.

[David Lever]

Just to broaden the topic a little, I think the way American porn is heading, its no surprise that the virus is apparently spreading with ease in USA. HIV does not have a 100% infection rate. However, the American producers' desperation for new depravity, ie how many huge dicks can be inserted up a girls arse, extra points awarded (in the edit suite) if she bleeds. constantly inventing new and novel ways to abuse a girls body, its predictable that someone with the virus will spread it easily.

I presume that there are probably loads of people on this forum who love this shit and I'll be shouted down as a bigot and porn-hater.

Anyway, I'll continue, if you make your performers brutalise each other like this, you increase the possibility of infection a thousand fold, because the virus gets straight into the blood stream, add to this the fact that they churn out their crap like a car factory and you can see how quickly an outbreak could spread, one brutal scene shot after another, day in day out.

So no doubt they'll shut down and soon as the all clear is sounded, they'll carry on as before......................and the same will happen again.
All in the name of the Almighty Buck.

So let's be careful about getting too hysterical, our industry is still a cottage industry compared to over there and I don't think us British are so corrupted by the pursuit of cash (yet) as the Yanks to make films with absolutely,no moral responsibilty whatsover. I think the point I'm making is that an infected performer over here is not going to be able to infect others so easily, because our style is gentler. So hopefully, the infected person would be more likely to be detected before he actually infected anyone. I'm not guaranteeing this by the way!


A final point is, does anybody really think these are the 2 first performers who've contracted HIV? There's got to be a few in the past, who got a positive result on their routine tests (probably not contracted from another performer) and then simply disappeared into the woodwork and by the grace of God didn't infect anybody beforehand.
So these 2 people in recent days should be applauded for coming forward unless its mandatory, I don't know.

[DanG]

Firstly David, Darren James and Lara Roxx didn't 'come forward'....AIM announced their results. AFAIK, there is no 'voluntary' aspect to the information coming out. It has to come out (and come out fast) so that the two 'lines' of infection are a) closed down and b) identified in their fullest so that there is no out there unawares of the situation who may be affected.

Now, onto the main point of your post, let me just say I couldn't agree with you more. Acts like double anal not only increase risks in real terms (i.e, more performers coming into contact with multiple performers per scene), but also are incredibly high risk in and of themselves. There is a fairly high risk from anal sex alone (bleeding/the lining becoming torn) which can make transmission a lot easier. With something like a double anal, you double the risk of tearing/bleeding and also double the number of potential infectees. I don't think there's anything wrong with anal scenes, but double anal (and some of the more extreme 'meat grinder'-style acts that American producers seem to require) are really upping the risks. As you so correctly point out, the fact it is run like a production line only increases the possibility of a more widespread and rapid infection.

The sad fact is, as long as there is a demand for this sort of stuff (which there obviously is or they wouldn't bother making it), then they'll keep on making it.

[Pianaman]

I agree too (with your main point). For me sex is most erotic when it involves tenderness, sensuality and play - not when it's more an act of violence against a woman. I think the "demand" for this sort of stuff actually stems from the fact that the endless pursuit of greater degrees of explicitness is ultimately unsatisfying, you see 10 double anals and then you get bored so you want to see a triple anal, and so on, not realising that what is lacking is not "explicitness" but emotional satisfaction and engagement. In other words it's a manufactured demand - much as in other industries such as the "demand" for MacDonald's or for fashion models the size of matchsticks - fashions are manmade, they don't just pop up from nowehere. The question is do we want to be slaves to such fashions or create our own perspective?

[Dace]

HI new to the forum
I can't stand all that double penetration and "gaping" stuff (you know what I mean) which seems to be rife across the water. I like the scuff britain is putting out, there is something about british porn (such as relish) that just appeals, its lighthearted and more real for it.
But as was pointed out, there are sickos out there and demand is real, I just hope UK producers don't go that way, its great the way it is !

[joe king]

'In other words it's a manufactured demand - much as in other industries such as the "demand" for MacDonald's or for fashion models the size of matchsticks - fashions are manmade, they don't just pop up from nowehere. The question is do we want to be slaves to such fashions or create our own perspective?'


Item 1: 'For me sex is most erotic when it involves tenderness, sensuality and play'
(sounds like you forgotten the 'sex' to me, penetration, thrust - all 'violent' words )

can we manufacture the demand for that (item 1)? How would we manufacture the demand for that (item 1)?

[Phil mCc]

Joe this is the most sensible thing you have said, I hope it was not an accident. I totally agree, We as producers can educate our punters to like a different product, this is a fact. As long as its made well, so many times I have heard this cheap gonzo stuff sells thats why we make it story. I don't believe it, I do know it sells but it does not compete it overal sales of a feature because a feature travels well, a feature will be dubbed and distributed world wide. Gonzo only sells well in its own country because the punter believes he will see the girl from the end of the street or the one that works in the bank in it. They want to believe because The Fuck Truck was shot in Croydon and the girl walked out of Croydon station, she lives there and they might meet her she might fancy them and they fuck.
I know I am right on this because I would like to think I was a creator of this theory in stills for Men Only and Escort ,Remmington took it over to video I believe this is true, the reason it went to USA was because we showed it to Penthouse Bob himself called me about ity.
My thoughts are most Gonzo is made by people who cannot do anything else, cheap crap churned out and if they did not make it they would be buying better product or getting an escort girl in or going back to a local amatuer studio and shooting for their pleasure.
A few and they know who they are are genuine producers who try to make Gonzo their way they spend money on it and buy quality, pay the girls well and put on a production, good luck to them I have supported them in the past and will go on doing so even if the are competing against me, because for me its about the industry not the product. How can we attract new girls into the industry when their agent sends them off on jobs that involve a solo guy shooting himself fucking her and call it a production, its not. And you cannot blame the agent because there is so much work like this they cannot refuse it. But how does the girls feel afterwards. Surely the Industry is not about this. I have read all the posts lately and I am sorrowed that it is in the mess, I hoped for a new start with R18 picking the best bits from industry round the world and building a great UK platfom I spent my own cash on making this possible not for the sales of my own product but for the want to create something. I respect everyone I work with and I demand respect back, Guess what I get it. A few true professionals making Gonzo or Features are worth their weight in Gold right now. I know most of the punters who read the forum believe all this because they vote with their cash, thats why FT has sold so many copies not because its cheap, Ben has sold so many copies not because its all he can do he can and he does make films, but he makes great Gonzo, The others who are tryiing to make great Gonzo you know who you are, keep going the dead wood will fall away soon. We need less amatuer producers thats for sure because they draw the market down for the punters no other reason.
So its time to get off the fence you are either a Producer or a Punter,

Phil McC

[David Lever]

Thanks for your comments, a number of people have made the point that if there is a demand then producers will make it. I think as producers we have a moral responsibility to draw a line ourselves. But if you are totally motivated by greed and also a mysoginist then obviously responsibility doesn't enter the equation. I also think the performers themselves, particularly the girls, should not allow themselves to be brutalised by the Yanks in this way, even if they don't see the harm in it at the time. Maybe they should ask a few questions before, getting on the Heathrow-LAX cattle-truck.
Unfortunately the Americans act as though the AVN awards, were being judged by a panel of inmates from Broadmoor.

[DavidS]

Purely as a punter Phil, I have to agree with you. I confess I have never been a fan of American porn, but in recent years it has simply become appaling. I have always had difficulty understanding why we import so much American crap, when British and European directors are able to produce such vastly better stuff. That is not to say that we don't make rubbish but, by and large, the products this side of the Atlantic are vastly better. I think it is very unfortunate that so much R18 material originates from the USA. Of course the British always have had an irrationally high regard for the USA! However, I feel sure if you and other British and European directors make quality stuff, the market for the unpleasant American stuff will eventually become a tiny niche market like bestiality and scat is.

[JackHorny]

I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone say "roll on the first quadruple anal scene... thats something I can't wait to see"... I'm not sure the US producers ARE catering for a demand.

I actually think their simply intent on pushing the boundary ever further, catering for their own egos... THEY want to be the first to do something increasingly more depraved or extreme. They're not doing it to cater for a demand in so much as they're doing it so that THEY CAN BE THE FIRST to have done it.

Will it sell? Of course it will sell because it's UNIQUE. And there will always be a demand for something that is being hailed as NEW, INNOVATIVE, EXCLUSIVE...

I do have to agree with all the sentiments expressed in this thread - Despite what many of the girls say in public, I'm not sure any of them GENUYINELY enjoy double anals etc... and in my capacity as a performer - I have to say it's not something that appeals to me as a doer or a watcher!

[Pianaman]

Like I said - demand is, to an extent, manufactured by the suppliers. It's not just a one way process as it naively seems to be described. It is possible to create new fashions, not just be enslaved to them.