HIV spread and the brutalising of women.

[David Lever]

Sounds like a great idea to me and certainly worthy of a BGAFD award! Perhaps, "Worlds Most Hated Male Performer"

[David Lever]

Hi Denise, Its great to see a girl contributing on a thread like this for a change. I hope you spread the word to everyone you meet, "Keep away from the U.S. of A!"

[Dan Dares]

100% true David,

We talk about improving the tests, all well and good, I'm totally behind that happening but while there are producers out there continuing this risky and dangerous practice for their films it's just a matter of time before we are discussing all this same stuff again but with new names on the list and new people infected!

You get most people reacting in horror but its ruined by one top UK producer saying he is struggling to sell the stuff even with the anal, DP, double anal and internal cum shots...well if your struggling mate do the sensible thing and sell up!

Dan

[Pianaman]

Or stop blindly following fashions set by people that know fuck all about sex.

[Officer Dibble]

"You get most people reacting in horror but its ruined by one top UK producer saying he is struggling to sell the stuff even with the anal, DP, double anal and internal cum shots...well if your struggling mate do the sensible thing and sell up!"

Slow sales? Maybe the aforementioned producer could try something radical and make some movies with folks having SEX in them, instead of "anal, DP, double anal and internal cum shots" It might catch on, I heard those kind of movies were extremely popular in the 70, 80's and early 90's.

Also, with all this talk of sleazy scumbag producers, model agents, and distasteful product in the States, the thought struck me that the models who appear in these movies are at least complicit, because in the majority of cases girls are under no illusion of what is expected of them in US porn movies nowadays. Why aren?t the majority of girls telling these alleged sleazeballs to "Get stuffed! What kind of girl do you think I am?" Why aren?t they outraged at the suggestion of being mega-buttfucked, jizzed on, mess-up, and pulled around by a few idiotically chortling gonzo dudes? Once their stock has fallen that far it?s very difficult, if not impossible, to raise it to blue chip status again. The most popular girls, like Teresa May, Adel Stephens, Louise, Charmiene etc would never countenance the idea of allowing themselves to be treated like that.

We all like to put the boot into Max Hardcore and Rob Black - but let's face up to the uncomfortable fact that they've not dragged those girls in off the street to abuse them by force, the girls went willingly and will have had a pretty good idea that it wasn't going to be an Andrew Blake type shoot. But they stood for it, thereby creating a precedent where subsequent girls have to do the same if not more. If models made it quite clear that they were not up for that distasteful shit then Rob, Max, and the like might have to shut up shop or go and do something slightly more appealing to ordinary geezers.


Officer Dibble - Putting things into perspective

[Dan Dares]

Ahh but you are comparing chalk and cheese Officer Dibble...the girls coming in to the industry don't have the finances or fame brought about by years of being able to get paid for simply just getting your top off that was possible back in the 80's and early 90's.

However your point is indeed true enough...problem is though, just as there are plenty of producers willing to sell their soul to make easy money, there are always plenty of girls (and guys) out there willing to do the same!

But then when your options are, no matter how clever you may be, working your arse off all week for a few hundred quid or less...whats the difference! This country sucks pay wise in all areas, and porn wins hands down on an hourly rate compared to almost any other job!

[eroticartist]

Be carefu! Most of you are talking the language of the enemy. Generalisations are bandied around about American porn. You forget that like English porn film makers some of them went to prison for making explicit sex movies. They fought for freedom of expression.

Max Hardcore seems to come in for a lot of attention because his work is really hardcore. Max is an artist who gets acting performances out of his women. Many of you seem to think his films are a recording of a real event : Max abusing these innocent models. Did you notice the sets, make-up, the clothes, hair accessories? Me thinks thou protesteth too much! You have all watched his films you hypocrites.

Freedom to show anal sex was a hard battle against the state censors. Paula Meadows (Truth or Dare 1983) once refused to do an anal scene for me. "Don't get me wrong Mike," she said in her plummy voice" I love it but it is also a criminal offence. I have know several females who loved anal sex and double penetration with dildos and penises It is not the subject matter but the way it is done. However it is a fact that some women too like a bit of rough sex. ( Are there any girls out there who will admit to it?) Max is still erect and that's the most important thing!

It is no good saying things like" extra points awarded if she bleeds" or using words words such as "depravity." This is the language of the extreme Right and aiding the censorship brigade who are waiting to turn back the clock. Name names,titles, producers and what kind of classification did the title in question get? It would not get an R18.

Mike Freeman

[eroticartist]

Correction "I love it but it is also a criminal offence" it should have read

[Pianaman]

I disagree. The far right bigots and the extreme abusers are two sides of the same coin - they both see sex in terms of power and control. As Pasolini's excellent satire on Fascism, "Salo" makes explicit - the same people who would proscribe freedom of sexual expression in public and hide behind the sanctity of the family and all that pious nonsense are the one's who love the most extreme scenes of rape and torture the most. A lot of this porn may be depicting "extreme" images but in terms of attitudes towards sexuality it's stuck in the middle ages and challenges bugger all in the real world - don't confuse explicitness with sexual liberation - what is really in danger of turning the clock back is that the right wing moralists and feminists and advocates of the most extreme porn seem to be using the same language and concepts - ie that "all porn is abusive" as if there's ultimately a difference between watching and participating in sex. It' just that one side seems to be celebrating that fact while the other uses it as a lever to advocate censorship. They feed on each other. What we really need to challenge is the notion that participating in sex whether through viewing or physical engagement has to involve degrading and humiliating people.

You are right that this is not just a US phenomenon though - it's too easy to single out Max Hardcore, he's not an isolated example.