Getting sick to the back teeth of hearing about this. It was an accident, no one woke up that morning and thought "I know I'll try and kill some Liverpool fans". It was a combination of unfortunate events that were prevalent in 80s football. It's funny how no one has mentioned Heysel at all..that WAS pure murder...but of course it's not PC to bring it up!
Around that time there were a lot of tragedies, the kings Cross Fire, Zebrugge Ferry, piper Alpha, Clapham Rail disaster not to mention the Bradford Fire and of course Heysel. At all of those events mistakes were made but do we hear people bleating on about it?? No we don't!!
Yes the police made mistakes and yes they made wrong decisions on the day...but why was that?? Because they deliberately wanted to kill Liverpool fans?? Do me a favour!
Cannot stand self pity. Life is not fair, shit happens...move on!
Hillsborough
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Hillsborough
I agree. And now there are going to be massive compensation claims. The payouts will likely well exceed the compensation that relatives received for losing loved ones in the other disasters mentioned here.
Had the Police NOT opened the gates and let everyone in at Hillsborough, the crush outside would most likely have been so bad people would have died there - then the Police would have been vilified for not having opened the gates and letting everyone in.
There are two things here regarding the Police's conduct: firstly what they did or didn't do to bring about the tragedy, and secondly what they did subsequent to the tragedy happening. Everyone is going on about how the Police covered everything up afterwards, doctored statements and so on, and that is bad and the Police deserve vilification for that. Their conduct before and during the event though involved poor management and poor decision making, it did not involve bad sinister behaviour by the Police.
I remember a debate on here about Hillsborough a couple of years ago and a contributor said something like "do you think the Liverpool fans at the Leppings Lane end queued like pensioners in a Post Office waiting to enter the ground, or do you think there would have been a lot of pushing and shoving to get in?" In other words did the determination of the fans to get in to the ground contribute to the crush. Yes, I am sure it did. Also, if the pens were overfull, beyond capacity, that would suggest there WERE a lot of ticket-less fans barging their way in. Otherwise, if the pens only contained the correct number of fans that were supposed to be there then how would there have been a massive crush? Seems to confirm there were a lot of people without tickets.
Lastly, I agree with the comment at the top about how everyone won't stop going on about this, but never seem to mention other huge disasters from that time. I remember the Piper Alpha disaster when it happened. 167 people died there. No one ever mentions that or seems to care. It is all Hillsborough, Hillsborough, Hillsborough...
Had the Police NOT opened the gates and let everyone in at Hillsborough, the crush outside would most likely have been so bad people would have died there - then the Police would have been vilified for not having opened the gates and letting everyone in.
There are two things here regarding the Police's conduct: firstly what they did or didn't do to bring about the tragedy, and secondly what they did subsequent to the tragedy happening. Everyone is going on about how the Police covered everything up afterwards, doctored statements and so on, and that is bad and the Police deserve vilification for that. Their conduct before and during the event though involved poor management and poor decision making, it did not involve bad sinister behaviour by the Police.
I remember a debate on here about Hillsborough a couple of years ago and a contributor said something like "do you think the Liverpool fans at the Leppings Lane end queued like pensioners in a Post Office waiting to enter the ground, or do you think there would have been a lot of pushing and shoving to get in?" In other words did the determination of the fans to get in to the ground contribute to the crush. Yes, I am sure it did. Also, if the pens were overfull, beyond capacity, that would suggest there WERE a lot of ticket-less fans barging their way in. Otherwise, if the pens only contained the correct number of fans that were supposed to be there then how would there have been a massive crush? Seems to confirm there were a lot of people without tickets.
Lastly, I agree with the comment at the top about how everyone won't stop going on about this, but never seem to mention other huge disasters from that time. I remember the Piper Alpha disaster when it happened. 167 people died there. No one ever mentions that or seems to care. It is all Hillsborough, Hillsborough, Hillsborough...
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tommy dickfingers
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Hillsborough
Everything you lot have said is rumor and speculation and "some bloke down the pub said" so called facts, have any of you read the inquest evidence and real facts of the what happened ,i don't think so , unfortunately the families of these football fans have had to put up with all the abuse and rumor mill surrounding Hillsborough for 27 years , and finally eventually against the odds they win! , they didn't want it to be 27 years after the event , Hillsborough could have happened to any group of away fans and nearly did so on a few occasions before , as jack Nicholson said "you can't handle the truth".
Re: Hillsborough
Well said Mr D.
Now they need to examine what happened (and what SY Police got up to) at Orgreave and whether the cover-up at Hillsborough was a Government pay-back for "services received" during the miners strike.
Now they need to examine what happened (and what SY Police got up to) at Orgreave and whether the cover-up at Hillsborough was a Government pay-back for "services received" during the miners strike.
Re: Hillsborough
So much wrong with this, I don't know where to start you pathetic little troll
Re: Hillsborough
Ok, So I'll start...
1. Heysel has nothing to do with Hillsborough, other than the stadium was not fit for purpose. There were 2 sets of fans fighting, not just Liverpool fans, We remember the day very well, and have strong ties with Juventus. We will never forget nor forgive what happened that day.
2. Implying that we think what happened at Hillsborough was a purposeful act is prepostorous... Of course it was an accident, but a wholly preventable one. A calamitous series of events that under the guidance of someone more experienced would never have come to pass. I actually feel sorry for Duckenfield, he was thrust into a role of Match Commander when he didn't have a clue how to do it. Creating and sticking to lies for all this time until he came clean in court is unforgiveable however.
3. The Police and the Establishment covered the whole thing up for all these years, amending statements, doing all they could to shift the blame, even during the new inquests, despite evidence from the Inedpendant Hillsborough reports.
I know we'll never agree on this matter, I'm sorry you're sick of it, but it's not about you. There is no self pity, only the fight for the truth and justice for the families. You can never know what it's been like, so go back to reading the s#n, andstay ignorant if that's what you want
1. Heysel has nothing to do with Hillsborough, other than the stadium was not fit for purpose. There were 2 sets of fans fighting, not just Liverpool fans, We remember the day very well, and have strong ties with Juventus. We will never forget nor forgive what happened that day.
2. Implying that we think what happened at Hillsborough was a purposeful act is prepostorous... Of course it was an accident, but a wholly preventable one. A calamitous series of events that under the guidance of someone more experienced would never have come to pass. I actually feel sorry for Duckenfield, he was thrust into a role of Match Commander when he didn't have a clue how to do it. Creating and sticking to lies for all this time until he came clean in court is unforgiveable however.
3. The Police and the Establishment covered the whole thing up for all these years, amending statements, doing all they could to shift the blame, even during the new inquests, despite evidence from the Inedpendant Hillsborough reports.
I know we'll never agree on this matter, I'm sorry you're sick of it, but it's not about you. There is no self pity, only the fight for the truth and justice for the families. You can never know what it's been like, so go back to reading the s#n, andstay ignorant if that's what you want
Re: Hillsborough
As I was saying........................
Re: Hillsborough
Yep, not just about Hillsborough, a completley corrupt system under Thatcher, yet still try to bury the truth to this day. Not gonna get away with it any longer.