What's going on at Man Utd then?

[David Johnson]

Last season there were some forumites, not me, who thought the United side needed considerably strengthening. I was one who argued that it was the same team under Moyes who had won the Premiership at a canter three months previously.

However, since then things have moved on. United have lost the core of their defensive expertise - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra. Okay, they were passed their best but they had been the mainstay of the defence for years. United also sold Buttner, another defender.

As far as I can see all they have got in replacement is Luke Shaw from Southampton, currently injured and Herrera, as yet an unproven player for United.

Now maybe there will be a flurry of signings before the end of the month, but if there are, United are doing a good job at keeping them quiet.

So what is going on?

[Arginald Valleywater]

The bubble has burst. Same as Tiger Woods in Golf. Nobody can stay at the top forever and nobody has a divine right to win everything. Purplenose saw the light and got out at the top. Perfect timing. What he left was a fading team. Van Gaal is not daft by any means and must expect a rough ride until he gets the players he wants, which looking at the last off season's buys may be a long time coming.

Rooney as captain shows desperation. Dead from the neck up and nowhere near the class of Robson or Keane. And as an aside the first man in history to go bald twice before 30!

Something is wrong with the entire set up when they can sign a stack of new commercial deals and not sign players. Personally I think Adidas may have signed one of the worst sponship deals in recent history. How can Man U be worth 2.5 times Real Madrid's kit deal?

Long may they slide.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]The bubble has burst. Same as Tiger Woods in Golf.[/quote]

Ah.......no. Football clubs can freshen up squads by buying new players. Golfers cannot by new body parts as they age. I don't get it.

[quote]Rooney as captain shows desperation.[/quote]

I don't follow your logic. He's the player at the club with the most appearances, won the most titles and scored the most goals for the club. He's won a Champions League, league cups and club world cup. How is picking such a player as captain 'desperation'? I don't get it.

[max_tranmere]

My pal is a football nut and he said a few days ago that Man U need to do well in their first game to get their confidence back up and then they can approach later games with more optimism. Losing yesterday to Swansea City was the worst thing that could've happened, their first game, after all of the carry-on of the last year. Things seems to be getting worse and worse for them. Another one or two losses and the fans will be getting audibly angry and the pundits and writers will be slating them at every turn. What has happened to this once great club?

[Bob Singleton]

[img]http://www.bobsingleton.co.uk/rooney.jpg[/img]

[randyandy]

I am inclined to agree with Arg on Rooney as Captain, he was part of a team that won things but feel it was a choice born out of very little other options.

Two other possibles were Carrick and Fletcher but injury and consistency probably ruled them out.

Another option was Jones but I think he still has to prove himself at the club having been carried for the last few years by Ferdinand / Vidic.

With regards to United their decline has been steady for a few years, despite winning things, Ferdinand going to QPR compared to Lampard being seen as still good enough to go to City speaks volumes but think the problem is possibly down to the board more than what any manager can resolve.

I still say that the sacking of Moyes was a cop out and a lot was hidden by results that he was an easy scapegoat for and also think they will pay the price for it.

I believe Fergie knew what the problems were and got out while he could, with his record intact and think that unless the board decide to back but also stick with the new manager (if he doesn't walk) that United will do a Liverpool and Arsenal for the next few years.

[Sam Slater]

What Arg says and your opinion that he's right doesn't make any sense.

1. Again, Rooney has played more games than any other player currently in the Man Utd squad.

2. Rooney has won everything there is to win (apart from the FA Cup) at club level in England.

3. Rooney has scored more goals than any other person at Man Utd since Dennis Law and Bobby Charlton who finished their careers at United over 40 years ago.

4. Rooney was Man Utd's best player last season apart from the goalkeeper. He scored over 20 goals and over 20 assists in all competitions. I think that only Suarez and Toure contributed more goals for their team last year.

5. Rooney scored 5 goals in 6 matches in pre season and was one of Man Utd's best performers under van Gaal's short tenure. He also scored yesterday and hit the bar.

6. It's Rooney's 10th season at the club. He's due a testimonial and knows everyone there.

7. While at Man Utd Rooney has played centre-forward, the no.10 role, wide left, wide right, central midfield, right-back, left-back and even played in goal in one cup game. He's known for tracking back and putting a shift in even when not playing well.

He's the standout candidate for the captaincy and a natural choice. van Gaal agrees and picked him over van Persie, who was van Gaal's captain at international level. None of this sounds 'desperate' at all - just sensible.

Again, I don't get this 'desperation' accusation. You could go on forever if you want to do that. Man Utd were 'desperate' in bringing in van Gaal. Chelsea were 'desperate' in going back to Mourinho after he left the club in a huff and has been caught gouging an opponent's eye . And what's with Chelsea keeping hold of a captain who's been done for racially abusing a fellow professional? That's sooo desperate! And Liverpool......man, their captain single-handedly gave away the title last season and they still keep him as their captain. Pure desperation there. Man City can't even find a British captain. How desperate they have to turn to a Belgian.

What of Real Madrid.......Casillas is captain and didn't even play last year. The two vice captains in Ramos and Pepe are complete nutters with 31 red cards between them. That's right, 31 red cards. Ramos has 19 reds and 180 yellow cards. That's right 'ONE HUNDRED and EIGHTY yellow cards at aged 27. How desperate are Real Madrid and Spain to even keep playing the guy, let alone have him as a vice-captain. Pure desperation if you ask me. And what's with Liverpool keeping Stirling after he gives his girlfriend a good hiding? He should have been shown the door. They were obviously desperate to keep his trickery and pace.

I'm sure you get the point........'desperation' is a silly accusation and doesn't really make any sense. You could pick any captain and think up a reason the decision to make them captain is desperate. You could pick any player any club has signed and think of a way of making it a 'desperate' move. Drogba back at Chelsea for instance. Pure desperation or just a sensible move given he knows the club, is loved by the fans and the manager thinks he'll be useful?

It's just an attempt to have a pop at Rooney and United. Nothing more nothing less. If van Gaal had picked van Persie people would have said it was a desperate move because Rooney isn't up to the job. If they'd have spent ?100m and brought in a Thiago Silva and made him captain people would have said it was a desperate move because none of the United players are leaders. It goes on and on. It's childish.

In fact, let me take it all back and just say that everything a football club does in a results business is due to desperation because they're all desperate to win things which means they desperately buy players, desperately hire and fire managers, desperately build academies and take on coaches and desperately try and sell shirts to make dosh........dosh to desperately buy more players to desperately win more things to desperately sell more shirts and on and on and on.

You with me?

[Essex Lad]

Rooney's experience is undeniable. His record speaks for itself. However, he has achieved all that as, if you like, a one-man band. He doesn't have to encourage players, chivvy them along, shout at them, cajole them (any more than any other player does a matter of course) so he can concentrate on doing what he does best.

Does he have the temperament to be captain? Is he a wise head? Do other players seek his counsel (apart from which hooker to visit ? cheap shot I know but I couldn't resist)?

Let's see in a couple of months if his goalscoring has dried up because of the responsibilities of captaincy.

[Bob Singleton]

David Johnson wrote:

> Last season there were some forumites, not me, who thought the
> United side needed considerably strengthening. I was one who
> argued that it was the same team under Moyes who had won the
> Premiership at a canter three months previously.
>
> However, since then things have moved on. United have lost the
> core of their defensive expertise - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra.
> Okay, they were passed their best but they had been the
> mainstay of the defence for years. United also sold Buttner,
> another defender.
>
> As far as I can see all they have got in replacement is Luke
> Shaw from Southampton, currently injured and Herrera, as yet an
> unproven player for United.
>
> Now maybe there will be a flurry of signings before the end of
> the month, but if there are, United are doing a good job at
> keeping them quiet.
>
> So what is going on?


What is going on, and has been for several seasons, is a huge under-investment by the board... something I alluded to last season (but I was wrong... it was all Moyes' fault, of course, as someone kept insisting).

Wasting huge amounts on Fellaini (a player woefully short of the minimum level required by a club like Man Utd) and Mata (a player they didn't actually need) does not constitute "investment". About the only positions Man Utd didn't need to strengthen last season were striker and attacking midfield (which is why the purchase of Mata was unnecessary). None of the real problems were addressed, and this season with the squad further depleted, and with two weeks of the transfer window left, they still haven't.

From a business point of view, Man Utd have done very well... record breaking sponsorship deals, lucrative tours of the USA and Far East over the years, etc., but the money isn't being re-invested in players. A splurge here or there on the wrong player for the wrong money to whet the appetite for further disappointment... the money is going back to the Glazers and to pay off the banks. Proper, planned investment in the squad is not being made, and hasn't been for several seasons. Much of the blame must be laid at the door of SAF... how many seasons did he go without strengthening a dodgy midfield, preferring instead to rely on Giggs and bringing Scholes out of retirement? If he had the funds but didn't spend them, he is wholly to blame. If he didn't have the funds, then his defending the Glazers to the supporters did the club as a whole a huge disservice.

Sir Alex knew he was weak in midfield, but did nothing. He knew that sooner, rather than latter, replacements were needed for his 3 most senior defenders, but he did nothing.

I feel sorry for David Moyes... decent guy who was sold a pup. A bit like the guy who buys a nice, low mileage second hand car only to find, after being stopped by the police, that it's a cut and shut and the odometer's been tampered with. Moyes was never going to be the world's greatest manager, but he is not at fault for what happened and is continuing to happen at Old Trafford.

I said last year that United needed to spend at least ?100m. They've wasted ?30m of that on Luke Shaw (no doubt will be a good player over the long-term, but you spend ?30m on 20+ goals a year strikers and creative midfielders, not left backs!) and ?29m on Herrera, an "attacking" midfielder who scores at a rate of less than one goal every ten games.

Where are the world class centre backs to replace Ferdinand and Vidic? Where are the strong defensive midfielders and deep lying playmakers they so desperately need?

Two weeks to go... every selling club knows they will be desperate. Just watch prices double for average players (because all the good ones have either joined new clubs or signed new contracts at their current ones!)

A top player won't dismiss a club the size of United just because for one season they're not in Europe... a second season, though, will make it harder to attract the very best players. Two weeks in which to find 3 or 4 world class players... as SAF would have said... squeaky bum time!

[Robches]

Utd's problem is that the Glazer family see the club as something to take money out of, not to put money into. The club has been bled by these vampires for ten years. Ferguson was their willing accomplice, he was well paid to go along with the financial rape of the club. Utd were running on fumes for several years, now they have fun out of petrol, and the Glazer clan have no intention of filling the tank.