Diabetes Crises

[cockneygeezer2009]

From The Telegraph:
?Up to a million more people should be offered weight-loss surgery on the NHS, according to controversial new guidance to tackle Britain?s diabetes time bomb. Draft guidance by the National Institute of Health and Care Excellence (Nice) says increasing numbers of people should be considered for gastric bands and stomach stapling, amid spiralling levels of obesity.
At present weight loss surgery is given to patients on the NHS to those who are morbidly obese with a body mass index (BMI) score of over 40 or to those with a BMI over 35 if they have another condition, such as type 2 diabetes. Now the rationing body has suggested that anyone with a BMI of 30 ? the threshold between overweight and obese ? should be considered for the surgery if they have been diagnosed with diabetes in the last decade.?

Most of us are overweight. People should eat what is good for them rather than what tastes nice. Prevention of type 2 diabetes is better than cure. I have a friend who is going blind due to lifestyle type 2 diabetes. I personally don?t think increased money should be spent on self inflicted problems. A better idea would be an added tax on the food and drink that causes obesity. The food and drink manufactures don?t help either. The calorific content of some food and drink I have seen is so tiny its no wonder nobody bothers looking at the ingredients. The NHS has a limited budget and if the NHS starts coughing up for gastric bands and the like the service the NHS provides will get worse.

[Sam Slater]

I half agree. I'm a physiotherapist and regularly see people with mobility issues due to obesity. In fact, most of the people I see have problems related to being overweight/and/or live sedentary lifestyles.

I don't think, however, that people should be denied health care just because it is self-inflicted. Does this mean smokers with lung cancer be denied life-saving treatment or are we going to stop people being rescued on mountains because they took the decision to climb up there? It goes on forever......denying people who play football in the park a cast when they break their leg.....they know the risks.

More should be done with regards to taxation though, which I do agree with you on. We need to make it cheaper to eat healthily. I just paid 15 quid in ingredients for tonight's chilli con carne for two people. I could buy 30 huge donuts for that same price and eat 4 a day. It's ridiculous. Some crap lager is cheaper than bottled water too.

Of course, the biggest issue is education.

[David Johnson]

I agree with Sam Slater.

Apparently, 10% of the NHS budget is already spent on the results of diabetes. So if a gastric band can be provided early doors, potentially this could be an overall saving in NHS spending compared to a lifetime of dealing with ailments. And as far as I know this treatment has a proven record long term, otherwise NICE would not have issued the guidance.

Having said that, I think the Telegraph story is a typical, ooh isn't it awful type story. As far as I am aware there are less than 10,000 of these operations are year, so the idea that the NHS will gear up its capability to have the relevant trained surgeons and resources to do up to a million of these operations in the current financial constraints is extremely unlikely I would have thought.

NICE themselves estimate tens of thousands rather than the 1 million that the Telegraph are on about. And given the dangers inherent with this surgery I am sure that it will continue to be a last resort when all else has failed.

A big start would be to tax heavily the shite that the food and drink manufacturers push-out like the fizzy drinks with large amounts of sugar. Andrew Lansley has had a voluntary code with these manufacturers which appears to have been a complete waste of time.

[Sam Slater]

I just remembered, that 15 quid included a bottle of wine. It's not like I deliberately picked the most expensive mince, chillies and red kidney beans I could find! !laugh!

[cockneygeezer2009]

"I agree with Sam Slater."

Makes a change.

"Having said that, I think the Telegraph story is a typical, ooh isn't it awful type story."

Was the leading story on most of the terrestrial news channels or one of them on that day.

"And as far as I know this treatment has a proven record long term, otherwise NICE would not have issued the guidance."

Correct but it's best to avoid obesity/diabetes in the first place."

[cockneygeezer2009]

"I don't think, however, that people should be denied health care just because it is self-inflicted. Does this mean smokers with lung cancer be denied life-saving treatment or are we going to stop people being rescued on mountains because they took the decision to climb up there? It goes on forever......denying people who play football in the park a cast when they break their leg.....they know the risks."

Breaking your leg playing football is not self inflicted. It's an accident. Getting lost on a mountain is an unfortunate occurrence.
If its self inflicted then your first lot of treatment should be given. After that treatment should be denied. I can't imagine that people would have a gastric band operation twice. Denial of treatment a second time is already happening in the health service with smokers.

[Sam Slater]

Except that not all people who smoke get lung cancer. Not all people that eat lots of food become obese and get type two diabetes.

The analogies are sound. Playing football increases the risk of injury. Climbing a mountain increases the risk of getting rescued from mountains. Smoking increases the risk of lung cancer. Eating too much increases the risk of obesity and obesity related illnesses.

We all know that some things we do increase the risk of some injury or other.

As a physiotherapist, I wouldn't like to deny somebody help with their back problems because it was due to sitting down on a sofa, compared to a sports related injury. It's not why I decided to do what I do. Likewise for many in the medical profession.

If you want to fight obesity, you get kids into cooking classes at school. It should be compulsory like maths, english and science rather than it being a choice subject......likewise for PE. I'd like to see parent and child cooking classes in school holidays and after school too. Get children and parents learning together and making it fun as well as educational. Obesity runs in families so you can't teach the kids if you're not going to educate the parents too. It will cost money but will save billions in the long run.

I'd rather educate than deny people health care.

[cockneygeezer2009]

"If you want to fight obesity, you get kids into cooking classes at school. It should be compulsory like maths, english and science rather than it being a choice subject......likewise for PE. I'd like to see parent and child cooking classes in school holidays and after school too. Get children and parents learning together and making it fun as well as educational. Obesity runs in families so you can't teach the kids if you're not going to educate the parents too. It will cost money but will save billions in the long run.

I'd rather educate than deny people health care."

All well and good but Mr Gove and his government aren't really interested in that kind of education.

[Sam Slater]

Not a fan of Gove, but denying people vital healthcare is just as silly an idea as anything Gove has come up with.

A lot of these families that are obese have come from poor, hard working generations who's jobs were hard labour. A habit of energy rich food in the working classes was needed to have the energy to actually do the jobs they did. Downside was heart disease and early death, but they were thin.

After the 80s, the loss of much industry left those families with no job, or different jobs, but the cooking and eating habits prevailed. These habits, which were once helpful, are now partly responsible for our obesity crisis, as well as the cost factor. It's why obesity is higher amongst the poor.

Denying the obese healthcare could be seen as punishing the poorest in our society too. That's not right. It's about education and introducing healthy habits in families........Gove or no Gove.

[Nob3y]

I think one way of cutting this problem in half at least would be alter the crap that gets put into our food in the first place.
It has been mentioned on this thread already but it seems to me that one easy way of stopping a lot of this is to just stop throwing in all this added extra sugar and other unnecessary ingredients.
Some people like myself have the will power to lose weight. I myself have lost over 8 stone so my health risks have dramatically reduced overnight.
But a lot of people don't have my will power.

The Daily Mail recently did some articals on added extra sugars in some of our food and drinks. It was an eye opener !

Take "innocent smoothies" , they say nothing is added but its revealed they add upto 6 teaspoons worth of sugar to each bottle. Why? aint fruit got enough natural sugar in it already ?!?!?!