Jimbo - a painful touch of reality for you

[David Johnson]

"And we all know who we can thank for creating a culture where police can stamp all over everyone rights?"

Some of what New Labour did was indeed excessive and stupid.

Your obsession with the "Nazi" New Labour is very unbalanced as it seems to suggest that before the big bad Blairites came along everything was fine.

For example, here's Margaret Thatcher extolling the virtues of that well know supporter of human rights, General Pinochet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/304516.stm

I suspect the families of the tens of thousands of "disappeared" during the dictatorship of Pinochet wouldnt have the same view.

And those miners who were were knocked down by charges by police on horseback and hammered during the Miners Strike in the 80's, that would appear to be a classic case of "stamping over rights" would it no? And those miners who were prevented from travelling in coaches to support their colleagues, a classic case where even freedom of movement was crushed.

You appear to have a very limited understanding of history, Jimbo. Perhaps, you need to extend your reading?

Cheers
D

[David Johnson]

I meant to include this in another thread about Brave anti-terrorist officers.

Oh for a delete/edit key.

CHeers

[jimslip]

You declared without even a hint of irony:

"You appear to have a very limited understanding of history, Jimbo. Perhaps, you need to extend your reading?"

You mean from your totally blinkered, brainwashed and lobotomised, "Understanding" of history? A history that when you don't like what you read, you simply edit it to suit your narrow little beliefs!

You should read what and how you write, then you would understand why when you left this forum, it was under a torrent of abuse, that even left me in a state of shock!

As I am so unread and stupid, why are you so concerned as to how I think? Why don't you just ignore me, after all, I am a mere illiterate peasant in your eyes, not an educated, political scholar like yourself. Presumably, my job is to toil in the fields, while you spew out political dictats (Shite) for me to proudly lap up, so that I am spurred on in my labours! Please, Comrade, bestow on me more of your wisdom!!!

[img]http://www.tootingpopularfront.com/citizensmith.jpg[/img]

[David Johnson]

The pantomime dame leaves stage right in a real paddy, bloomers round her ankles. Alas not for the first time and I suspect, not for the last.

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i ... ply_239589

It was about 24 hours last time. How long this time?

Shock horror Jimbo quote
"You should read what and how you write, then you would understand why when you left this forum, it was under a torrent of abuse, that even left me in a state of shock!"

"Even left me in a state of shock!" I do hope you sat down and had a nice cup of tea and two sugars Jimbo to get over the shock. I dont contribute on this forum to win a popularity contest. However this is a tad drama queenish remark even for you.

And forgive me for suggesting it, but a substantial rewrite of the past. Have a gander at the associated comments to the link below.

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i=238405&t=238405

Bye for now,
D

PS Dont forget to tell me when that nice David Cameron instigates an inquiry/reprimand to the anti-terrorist police who tried to terrify a 12 year old boy from holding a protest outside Cameron's constituency office about youth centre cuts in his constituency.

And I hate to point it out, but I am still waiting for your list of all the "neo Nazi measures introduced by the evil Blairites" that the yummy twosome of Cameron and the Cleggster have repealed. Must be tons by now. THose lads have been so busy, hammering the poor and tripling fees.

[jimslip]

Yes and the goose stepping little dictator leaves stage left! !laugh!

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LRuQqtRzw4M/R ... +smith.jpg[/img]

[David Johnson]

"As I am so unread and stupid, why are you so concerned as to how I think? Why don't you just ignore me, after all, I am a mere illiterate peasant in your eyes, not an educated, political scholar like yourself."

On the subject of me ignoring you, it was the other way round a week ago with you undertaking to ignore me. Blessed relief it was too. I dont want to ignore you because some people, unlike myself, might take your views seriously.

It's a simple enough point I am making:

1. New Labour introduced a number of excessive and stupid measures on the subject of civil liberties.
2. This is part of an ongoing trend which has continued for many decades. Thatcher extolled the virtues of fascist dictators like Pinochet, introduced shoot to kill policies in Northern Ireland condemned by European courts, called working people who were prepared to go on strike to defend their jobs, wages and working conditions as the "enemy within" and introduced a tranche of laws that made it as difficult as possible to go on strike. Hardly a glowing civil liberties record.

When I make this point, rather than address the issue, as always you resort to your early onset Alzheimers response i.e. Nazi New Labour, goosestepping lobotomised blah de boring blah Tooting Free blah de blah..

Ive taken the time to explain the point to you. If you dont agree, you're welcome. I have fulfilled my objective which is to point out why you are talking shite in terms of implying that New Labour had created this reduction of civil liberties. They didnt. They merely carried on a trend.

CHeers
D

[frankthring]

David & Jim
Without wishing to join your tea-party, and univited too, I feel
I must say a few evident statements. I hesitate to call them facts, without
wishing to offend either of you guys, but they seem clear enough to me:

a) You both frequently make sound points but then ram them home
with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer hitting a nut.
b) Freedom of speech, the rights of ordinary folks, public surveillance, a
ton of laws that can be used to create a totalitarian state seem to
be creeping at an alarming rate onto the statute book.
c) Who is to blame - Labour or Tory or Tory/Lib Alliance ?
d) Well I know who was in power for the past decade....and lets stop
calling them New Labour, David. "Old" Labour, or "real Labour", the
party of Keir Hardie and Ramsay Macdonald, died a long time ago. In
our egalitarian society its Blairite Labour now, or nothing at all ! It
is clear Labour have shamefully made it easier for successive
governments to break down individual liberties and long-established
British freedoms.
e) At the same time it must said, Jim, that right wing governments -
unless we talk of one party states like Stalinist Russia - right wing
governments of all kinds are usually less friendly to people`s rights
than left wing ones.
f) David`s examples of Mrs Thatcher - her belief in power and rule
via an elite, her extension of police powers in support of Govt
measures, her crushing of the unions and especially the miners, was
the closest thing to the days of Castlereagh, Lord Liverpool and the
Peterloo Massacre that England had seen in a century and a half !
g) This is what happens, I suspect, when a Tory Govt, has a large
majority and can exercise strong right-wing conservative policies.
To sum up, Blair is not a horned devil and the Tory/Lib
Alliance are not villains either.....
Politicians are just as stupid, venal - even well-intentioned-
as most of us with the added danger that they wield power, and
power, as Mrs Thatcher and Tony Blair both proved, corrupts. If wielded
long enough, absolutely !

[David Johnson]

"It is clear Labour have shamefully made it easier for successive
governments to break down individual liberties and long-established
British freedoms.
e) At the same time it must said, Jim, that right wing governments -
unless we talk of one party states like Stalinist Russia - right wing
governments of all kinds are usually less friendly to people`s rights
than left wing ones."

So in short you agree with the points that I made in the post you reply to i.e. Labour introduced some excessive and stupid laws affecting civil liberties, but it was part of an onoging trend of which Thatcher was a part.

Or am I misinterpeting you?

Cheers
D

[justincyder]

~introduced shoot to kill policies in Northern Ireland~

DJ I cannot deny you are a well learned personwith a very good way of presenting your point, however please do not comment on things you DEFINITELY do not know about, there never was or has been a shoot to kill policy in Northern Ireland.

Iit is an unfortunate side affect of shooting at someone that you are shooting at them to eradicate the threat that they present and as this involves firing at the largest body mass in order to make sure you hit them this inevitably results on many occassions in death.

a shoot to kill policy is something the media, sinn fein, ira invented for propoganda purposes.

On this I can categorically state I am an expert.

[jimslip]

Mr Thring, I happened to have lived through Thatcher's Britain, I like many, saw her brutal stamping on the rights of striking individuals and the unfettered nurturing of the rich and powerful. I saw her warmongering.

In DJ's little world however, if you hate and loathe New Labour, you must by definition LOVE Thatcher and the Tories!

However, you knew what you were dealing with with the likes of Thatcher, New Labour pretended to be "Right on" and at one with all of us, when they actually didn't give a shit and in the end were far more dangerous to our basic freedoms than Thatcher ever was.

Again, I must admire DJ's slavish, dare I say it, drone like, devotion to that corrupt bunch of New Labour crooks, as I said before, even Blair himself would interrupt the bank clerk whilst counting some of his ?20 million and say, "Well done David, you are our most loyal supporter, now will you help me carry some of my loot to Heathrow, I've got an urgent meeting with the manager of my Swiss bank!"

Mr Thring and DJ, because I actually have a life to lead and do not wish to be endlessly spewing out pages of historical facts on here, doesn't mean I do not know what ACTUALLY happened!

Difference is I hold no allegiance to any party, I simply hate the lot of 'em!