For Labour supporters - it aint all bad!

[David Johnson]

As a Labour supporter, today is a sad day.

A Tory minority or Tory/Lib Dem coalition certainly wasn't at the top of my list of preferred outcomes.

However, this is a great election to lose given Mervyn King's alleged comment that whoever wins this election and implements the range of cuts being talked about by the Tories, will be out of office for a generation.

The Lib Dems will be guilty by association. Rightly so. If the Lib Dems do not get anything other than a referendum on the alternative vote system, the Blessed Cleggie will have been guilty of one of the greatest political betrayals of our time. My guess is that tHe Lib Dems will be consigned back to the dustbin of political history.

Any guesses as to the size of the overall Labour majority next time round?

CHeers
D

[Bob Singleton]

Spot on... but it's not just Mervyn King who's been saying that!

There was a very interesting programme on BBC2 the Sunday before the election which featured past and present heads of the Civil Service and Treasury, a few economists of various hues, social and political commentators, etc. The bottom line was that Labour's economic proagramme was just about the best of the three being touted by the major parties, but that whoever got into power would have to face such tough decisions (cuts of around 20-25% in most government departments) that they would become so unpopular as to banish them from the likelihood of power for several elections.

Will Self was also putting forward this theory on Andrew Neil's This Week TV programme many, many weeks before the election.

[Sam Slater]

Labour bottled it. PR was offered by many Labour MPs and when Clegg actually came to sit down and talk they baulked. Too many Labour MPs were more interested in losing their seats than giving the people what they wanted.

Same for the Tories as well, mind. The only true progressive parties in the UK, now are the Lib Dems and the Green Party.

[David Johnson]

"Labour bottled it. PR was offered by many Labour MPs and when Clegg actually came to sit down and talk they baulked. Too many Labour MPs were more interested in losing their seats than giving the people what they wanted."

Where is the evidence for the above?

[number 6]

Labour will be back in but its going to be a long 5 years. The country will be completely ravaged ala 1980/81

[Sam Slater]

You think? I don't know. Cameron may ride out the oncoming recession, hope it's not too bad and subsequently get a reduction in MPs and redraw constituency boundary lines which will no doubt be more advantageous to the Tories.

Labour had the chance of a progressive alliance and bring in PR, which would keep the Tories out for a very long time. They bottled it.

[David Johnson]

"Labour had the chance of a progressive alliance and bring in PR, which would keep the Tories out for a very long time. They bottled it."

The Labour party offered an election manifesto commitment to a referendum on av. The Tories have offered a referendum on av which they will no doubt campaign against.

So why did the Blessed Cleggie go with the Tories? THey could have left the TOries to get on as a minority government.

D

[Sam Slater]

[quote]The Labour party offered an election manifesto commitment to a referendum on av. The Tories have offered a referendum on av which they will no doubt campaign against.[/quote]

But before the election result was even finalised many Labour MPs were talking specifically about PR. Brown himself mentioned PR and I'm sure Mandelson did too. To be fair to Mandelson I don't think he was the one backing down on it. It was Balls, Ed Milliband and Harman, amongst the cabinet.

[quote]So why did the Blessed Cleggie go with the Tories? THey could have left the TOries to get on as a minority government.[/quote]

It seems many Liberal Democrats thought Labour were just going through the motions and stalling. Maybe the Liberal Democrats think they can serve us better by influencing Tory policies from within government rather than as part of the opposition. I'd rather have a diluted Tory government than a neat one. Wouldn't you?

This partnership, of course, could turn many voters away from the Lib Dems. I doubt the Lib Dems haven't considered this too. To me, this tells me that the Lib Dems feel that influencing Tory policies is more important for the nation than doing what's right for their party (probably having nothing to do with the Tories). They obviously take serving the people much more seriously than the Labour MPs, who just took the decision that was more likely to save their own skin, rather than serve us fairly.

Can you give me any reason why the Labour party backed down from PR apart from it being an attempt to save their own seats?

[David Johnson]

"Can you give me any reason why the Labour party backed down from PR apart from it being an attempt to save their own seats?


Stick to the facts instead of the Jackanory stuff Sam. The Labour party offered the same as the Tories in the Labour party manifesto.

[Sam Slater]

I'm telling you what many Labour MPs offered in TV interviews and columns shortly after the election result was finalised. Manifesto's are altered and debated over during coalition talks so it's less relevant. Labour gave the impression that they were going to offer PR to woo the Lib Dems and when Clegg turned to them they bottled it.....big time.

Don't be ashamed you voted Labour. You weren't to know they felt serving themselves was of more importance than serving us. I thought they were on the up-'n'-up too, when they offered PR. I was wrong about them too. You weren't the only one they let down. Blaming Clegg will obviously feel like the easiest way for you to save face, after putting all your eggs in the Labour basket, but if you've got enough nous about you you'll see through that tactic.

PR was offered and then retracted when it came to the crunch. Clegg was stuck between a rock and a hard place and did his best to give the people a fairer voting system. Ultimately he failed, but he stuck to his word and talked to both parties. If only Labour had stuck to theirs we could have seen the biggest leap forward in our democratic system since women and the common man were given the right to vote. Labour, the party of the people, have become the party of the establishment.