O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
-
joe king
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
I love the combination of porn fascist and porn producer...
-
Officer Dibble
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
"Fascist"? But I've never suggested that the power of the state should be used to stop folks doing whatever they like doing. Indeed I speak out against that kind of thing at every opportunity. The minority of folks who dig it can do as much ?ass-to-mouthing? as they like. I don?t care, so long as they don?t rope me in. I?m just questioning why that and similarly pointless semi-sexual exercises (bukake, cream-pies anyone?) should be working their way into mainstream porno films as this can only have negative consequences for the adult entertainment biz. Consequences that are to do with customers being ?turned off? and with handing adult entertainment?s enemies a stick with which to beat it.
Admittedly I do feel a need to point out that certain things are crap, but to ensure that my points are taken seriously I take pains explain, in a clear and concise manner, why they are crap - I note Joe that you hardly ever explain your ambiguous posts and frequently leave us scratching our heads ? Does simply having an informed opinion make me a fascist? I don't believe so.
Dibble.
Admittedly I do feel a need to point out that certain things are crap, but to ensure that my points are taken seriously I take pains explain, in a clear and concise manner, why they are crap - I note Joe that you hardly ever explain your ambiguous posts and frequently leave us scratching our heads ? Does simply having an informed opinion make me a fascist? I don't believe so.
Dibble.
-
valx
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
Artistic tyrannies aside -
to bring general abuse down on all of porn because of ATM and other fringe/extreme scenes is misleadling. I see a fair amount of XXX and really don't run across that much ATM. If a viewer is watching a lot of gonzo, as opposed to more elaborately produced stuff, then be ready to see 'limits' being pushed even if these limits are personal tastes of the viewer. Some of this is more the 'raincoater' kind of porn and is openly done to satify that market. But I wouldn't classify it as a particularly 'US' style, since Euro has done things we can't touch, and if anything they might even be leading the pack in certain areas. The features are made more or less with couples and women in mind so that's where some porn fans can focus their selections. That's not making any reference to quality but more to what most likely will be left out. To me, this is where a director has to have real talent to accomplish the same things. It's still hardcore and the right girls and setups can make any scene work.
to bring general abuse down on all of porn because of ATM and other fringe/extreme scenes is misleadling. I see a fair amount of XXX and really don't run across that much ATM. If a viewer is watching a lot of gonzo, as opposed to more elaborately produced stuff, then be ready to see 'limits' being pushed even if these limits are personal tastes of the viewer. Some of this is more the 'raincoater' kind of porn and is openly done to satify that market. But I wouldn't classify it as a particularly 'US' style, since Euro has done things we can't touch, and if anything they might even be leading the pack in certain areas. The features are made more or less with couples and women in mind so that's where some porn fans can focus their selections. That's not making any reference to quality but more to what most likely will be left out. To me, this is where a director has to have real talent to accomplish the same things. It's still hardcore and the right girls and setups can make any scene work.
-
jj
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
I would assume that in their desperate search for new 'angles' porn producers (especially in the States) see ATM/bukkake/
internals etc. as adding variety.
They may even have a point.........
internals etc. as adding variety.
They may even have a point.........
-
Officer Dibble
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
But are you suggesting that left to their own devices and with no other considerations most men would choose to view gonzo type material featuring all these gross-out variations on the fucking and sucking theme? I refer to the bit where you say -
" The features are made more or less with couples and women in mind"
Why would men alone want to see these gross-out elements? What is it in their DNA that drives them to seek out bukake, cream-pies, internals, ATM and the like? And what is the socio-biological imperative that drives them to do this? How does it contribute towards the genetic well being and survival of the species? And how did guys get along for all the millions of years before gonzo producers came along and invented this kind of stuff?
Speaking for myself, I loved early, gentle, gonzo - Buttman, Ben Dover - because it was simply about fucking and sucking with pretty, appealing, feminine type girls. But to say I find modern gonzo unappealing, unstimulating or unerotic would be an understatement. Given a choice I don?t seek it out, I avoid it like the plague!
Speaking as one who has taken a straw poll of friends and colleagues, all but those who actually make gonzo say they find it a huge turn-off. "What's all that spitting, slapping and gaping arseholes about? We just wanted to see a porno movie to see some shagging" is a quote from a friend in 'Civi St.'
Speaking as some one who knows a little about adult video retail I can say that, yes there is a market for contempory gonzo and all that entails. However, it is not as big as you might think. The reality is that there are a wide spread of tastes that kind of peaks around attractive mature women sporting big tits and gonzo is just one component of that. Significant, but not as significant as you would imagine from the preponderance of these kind and style of movies in adult entertainment outlets
Dibble.
" The features are made more or less with couples and women in mind"
Why would men alone want to see these gross-out elements? What is it in their DNA that drives them to seek out bukake, cream-pies, internals, ATM and the like? And what is the socio-biological imperative that drives them to do this? How does it contribute towards the genetic well being and survival of the species? And how did guys get along for all the millions of years before gonzo producers came along and invented this kind of stuff?
Speaking for myself, I loved early, gentle, gonzo - Buttman, Ben Dover - because it was simply about fucking and sucking with pretty, appealing, feminine type girls. But to say I find modern gonzo unappealing, unstimulating or unerotic would be an understatement. Given a choice I don?t seek it out, I avoid it like the plague!
Speaking as one who has taken a straw poll of friends and colleagues, all but those who actually make gonzo say they find it a huge turn-off. "What's all that spitting, slapping and gaping arseholes about? We just wanted to see a porno movie to see some shagging" is a quote from a friend in 'Civi St.'
Speaking as some one who knows a little about adult video retail I can say that, yes there is a market for contempory gonzo and all that entails. However, it is not as big as you might think. The reality is that there are a wide spread of tastes that kind of peaks around attractive mature women sporting big tits and gonzo is just one component of that. Significant, but not as significant as you would imagine from the preponderance of these kind and style of movies in adult entertainment outlets
Dibble.
-
Officer Dibble
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
Searching for "new angles" is a pointless exercise. Fucking is fucking and that's that. There is no more. What man is interested in sexually he has already been doing for the past 2000 years or more. If ATM, bukake cream-pies and the like were particularly relevant to human sexuality the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans would have thought of it and it would have survived till today.
Producers may feel they need to search for new angles to keep customers interested in their products, but in doing so they are veering away from what really stimulates us towards what turns us off and consequently are making things worse. The problem is they've given the consumer too much to soon and now there's nowhere to go.
Dibble.
Producers may feel they need to search for new angles to keep customers interested in their products, but in doing so they are veering away from what really stimulates us towards what turns us off and consequently are making things worse. The problem is they've given the consumer too much to soon and now there's nowhere to go.
Dibble.
-
Bruce Barnard
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
In summary: some agree with me, others don't. I wasn't trying to make a moral judgment on fringe sexual activity. Merely trying to state for the record that the current climate which encourages A2M, gang bangs etc, dramatically increases the risk of disease transmission for the performers. This may or may not be an 'acceptable risk' depending on which side of the fence you sit.
As I said, thanks for the insight gained over the last few months. Look out for 'Fleshtrade' a six part comedy drama on the sex industry in the UK that I'm currently pitching at Radio producers, some time in 2003 probably.
Ta
As I said, thanks for the insight gained over the last few months. Look out for 'Fleshtrade' a six part comedy drama on the sex industry in the UK that I'm currently pitching at Radio producers, some time in 2003 probably.
Ta
-
joe king
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
there is a good analogy with vanilla ice cream here (with the caution that all analogies can break down)
'Private' seems to have them best form of vanilla ice cream (fantastic, high quality ingredients) but to me they don't particularly tickle my taste buds.
The branding and the marketing have gotten this vanilla maker into the top ten.
But why stick to vanilla? There are plenty of flavours out there.
The actual niche marketing helps to differentiate the product. 'cream pies' must me a label useful for marketing, as if sperm had never been pictured inside a vagina before.
Even if you market a film for 'couples', this 'niche' is almost meaningless (although some patterns can be discerned). What am I trying to say? Most of the labels are marketing tools.
As an erotophile, I find the reason why some people find some things erotic puzzling - this could be my intellectual nature, porn in itself being a physical sensation and not really 'of the brain'. Why do some people find some women in black stockings and suspenders sexy, erotic? I haven't found any good reason. They just do.
There are possibly some uncreative/unimaginative producers out there. I hope you aren't one of them.
'If ATM, bukake cream-pies and the like were particularly relevant to human sexuality the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans would have thought of it and it would have survived till today'
I don't know enough about ancient practices but in 'History of Rome', Livy describes the orgies and incredible licentiousness.
'Private' seems to have them best form of vanilla ice cream (fantastic, high quality ingredients) but to me they don't particularly tickle my taste buds.
The branding and the marketing have gotten this vanilla maker into the top ten.
But why stick to vanilla? There are plenty of flavours out there.
The actual niche marketing helps to differentiate the product. 'cream pies' must me a label useful for marketing, as if sperm had never been pictured inside a vagina before.
Even if you market a film for 'couples', this 'niche' is almost meaningless (although some patterns can be discerned). What am I trying to say? Most of the labels are marketing tools.
As an erotophile, I find the reason why some people find some things erotic puzzling - this could be my intellectual nature, porn in itself being a physical sensation and not really 'of the brain'. Why do some people find some women in black stockings and suspenders sexy, erotic? I haven't found any good reason. They just do.
There are possibly some uncreative/unimaginative producers out there. I hope you aren't one of them.
'If ATM, bukake cream-pies and the like were particularly relevant to human sexuality the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans would have thought of it and it would have survived till today'
I don't know enough about ancient practices but in 'History of Rome', Livy describes the orgies and incredible licentiousness.
-
Spook
Re: O/T Vague Sense of Discomfort
Extreme sexual perversion is hardly a modern concept.
You don't even want to think about the things Tiberius got up to on Capri.
It is simply a case that throughout history, some people with the time, money and power have been drawn to these activities. The rest were too busy trying to survive. With the "benefits" of modern live more people are able to indulge in these fantasies - allbeit at a voyeuristic level.
I'm not saying that its a good thing - but it cerainly isn't a new thing.
You don't even want to think about the things Tiberius got up to on Capri.
It is simply a case that throughout history, some people with the time, money and power have been drawn to these activities. The rest were too busy trying to survive. With the "benefits" of modern live more people are able to indulge in these fantasies - allbeit at a voyeuristic level.
I'm not saying that its a good thing - but it cerainly isn't a new thing.