Terminal Decline

[Simon]

"Photo sets !!!!!
Yes true I have got loads actually but we weren't talking about photo sets really. Generally we were discussing video content."

Generally it's about content, any content.

"The bottom dropped out of the photo set market long ago."

You really have no clue. You talk about the money mags used to pay while having no idea what a photoset can earn online. You live in the past.

"That's why all the mags here are all but dead."

Because the internet came along and photosets could make a lot more money than they could from the mags - still can and do, the audience is a lot bigger. If you'd made the move online when everyone else did you would have seen that.

"And with reference to 'our' communication with each other I don't recall it to be honest. If it had been worth it I would obviously remember it. Or what the outcome was but I can probably guess that it wasn't particularly worth me scanning all the transparencies because you wanted something to cheap which nicely proves my whole point !!"

You do make wild insinuations but it would have been worth it, believe me.

Here's a reminder:
You were actually quite insulting when I sent you an initial e-mail enquiring what content you had for sale. You wrote back stating that you wouldn't sell it to me for 20c an image even though I hadn't even mentioned price.
When I replied:
"I'm not expecting to pay 20 cents an image, there are plenty of places that charge 20 cents but the content is not what I'm looking for.
Saying that, nor am I looking at paying $10 an image. I'm after full sets for website usage and not print media or single images and the price
would be dependant on what rights are attached to the licence.
Until I see some samples it's difficult to say what I'd be willing to pay but it would be something we'd both be happy with, I'm certainly not looking to insult you as you seem to think.
It doesn't matter to me whether it's in digital form, scanning isn't a problem for me, in fact I'd probably prefer it to get the quality I want."

You then sent me a list of 19 girls :
"Here's a list of girls that I have available sets of that you may know of :-
- list of names -
and many many more.
I'll try and get some samples together and winzip some to you.
I ONLY sell non exclusive electronic rights.
Dave."

I replied with "I look forward to seeing some samples" and never heard back. I wasn't going to waste my time contacting you again. It was obvious you couldn't be bothered.
Your loss. I continued spending money with people that wanted the business, still do.

...but don't blame yourself, blame the industry

[one eyed jack]

My new saying for the industry of late is that people in the business are so distrustful, cynical and jaded that they are expecting to be fucked BEFORE they've been fucked

LOL

Everybodys fucking everybody. I guess thats what its all about.

[Dave Wells]

"I replied with "I look forward to seeing some samples" and never heard back. I wasn't going to waste my time contacting you again. It was obvious you couldn't be bothered.
Your loss. I continued spending money with people that wanted the business, still do."

Simon I honestly didn't get this reply !

[Dave Wells]

And I say the biz is full of pricks and cunts now Terry !

Same thing I suppose !

[Dave Wells]

Already answered this. Never had any cashflow to do such except once in 1996. And even then it was kinda for someone else (on a 5 year licence). I've always paid my gas/electric etc bills rather than risk a shoot and punt it out and hope.

Yeah, probably my mistake, I'm not arguing that fact with anyone. But nothing I have stated in this entire thread is a lie.

So butcher me if you want guys, that what you do on this site isn't it !

[Dave Wells]

OK guys I'm gonna sum up some things here to maybe end this thread or stop it from getting ugly (or uglier even). So to go back to the original post :-

Generally from what I have seen therefore in my humble opinion the decline in the business as I knew it when I first started 27 years ago has been pretty drastic indeed. For better or worse everybody I speak to nowadays (performers and producers) tells me a similar story i.e that they are struggling, not enough work about, they are just going through the motions, trying to survive etc etc ok ! Many, many of them have gone or are packing it all in because they cannot make a crust these days. Unless they're all lying from my own experience I agree, it is in a decline or maybe just going through a dramatic change. Who knows for sure ?

Now all you knockers..... Sure I probably should have started 'my own thing' long ago but I chose to invest in property (1 at a time not lots) rather than something that I saw was going to be in decline (yes, I foresore it over 10 years ago). My 'chip on my shoulder' isn't because I regret or resent anything or anyone but just that I do feel someone, somewhere in one of the larger organisations would/could/should benefit from my huge experience, knowledge and abilities. I do not think I have any devine right to this but just feel they are missing out.

Nothing I have said in this thread knocks any of you guys for doing what you do or what you have done. Good luck to you. But my skills would suit a larger company where I can do what I do best on a wage rather than what you do.

Ok, end of !

[jimslip]

Dave you said: "Now all you knockers.....etc, etc

I think you started the so called "Knocking" when you referred to a company that did not wish, in effect, to sack one of its existing members of staff (that they were happy with) and replace him/ her with yourself...............a "Twat"

You can't say things like that without expecting to anger people.

Anyway, unfortunately, I don't think the bigger companies that you seek, ie that employ crew,really exist anymore. The ones I know, employ people as, "Producers" ie you pitch an idea or they invest money and you have to one way or another, "Produce" the end product. That is the only way forward as I can see. You're gonna have to bite the bullet!

Why don't you look for a partner to do the "Admin", for you?

[Dave Wells]

Dave you said: "Now all you knockers.....etc, etc

I think you started the so called "Knocking" when you referred to a company that did not wish, in effect, to sack one of its existing members of staff (that they were happy with) and replace him/ her with yourself...............a "Twat"


You can't say things like that without expecting to anger people.

Anyway, unfortunately, I don't think the bigger companies that you seek, ie that employ crew,really exist anymore. The ones I know, employ people as, "Producers" ie you pitch an idea or they invest money and you have to one way or another, "Produce" the end product. That is the only way forward as I can see. You're gonna have to bite the bullet!

Why don't you look for a partner to do the "Admin", for you?

No if you read it correctly I din't say anyone should get sacked and me replace them at all and well done Dave form perfectly showing the point of not reading correctly.

The twats are the people running the big companies not the people shooting for them - do sit up there at the back of the class and listen in future please.

And as foer second part of the above that is exactly what I meant by pitching etc !

And yet again (well done again). The last bit is exactly what I'm looking for and have advertsied for endlessly.

[Ron T. Storm]

Glad I'm not one of the bigger companies. I know where you are coming from Dave but you certainly won't endear yourself to them by calling them "twats" on a public forum.

[Ron T. Storm]

Well If the 'Producers' Forum/Area was called 'The Anyone who shoots porn' Area then I would agree with anyone who holds a camera or at the very least anyone with experience of shooting porn.

A Producer being defined as, according to Wikipedia:

'Producer: A film producer creates the conditions for making movies. The producer initiates, coordinates, supervises, and controls matters such as raising funding, hiring key personnel, and arranging for distributors. The producer is involved throughout all phases of the filmmaking process from development to "delivery" of a project.'

Note 'controls matters such as raising funding' and 'involved throughout all phases of the filmmaking process from development to "delivery" of a project.' Also note does not mention about being a cameraman.

The UKAP group is called the Producers Forum and by definition is for 'Producers'. It is NOT called 'Professionals Only' so, by defintion, is for Producers Only.

If it was called the 'Hired Cameramen Forum' then would be fair enough to have a go at them but why try joining or even slagging off a forum that, by definition, you have no right to apply to.

A non-porn related example: Its like me complaining I cannot join the PGA (Professional Gold Association) even though I have played Golf for years before many of the members even started playing gold....

Basically the title gives it away 'The Producers Forum'.

Have a nice day.