Affiliates

[SpannerProductions]

Good evening BGAFD Citizens !rules!

Some say that ignorance is bliss, so right now I am extremely happy !laugh!
I know i'm certainly confused !confused!
Would the resident forum experts !bow! !bow! be willing to explain (in English please) what 'Site Affiliates' are...........!thumbsup! and should I have /want or need to purchase some ??

[Welshmorph]

Affiliates are people who promote your site and in return get a percentage of the sale if someone joins up via their link The percentage is normaly 50%.

Yes you want affiliates if you are doing a paysite. What's also important is to make sure you provide plenty of tools for your affiliates in terms of hosted galleries, hosted movie galleries etc and not just rely on people putting a link or a banner up. Or if not be providing the tools at least be happy to give affiliates a promo pass to the site so they can make their own galleries.

Any paysite that doesn't have an affiliate scheme is wasting their time in my opinion, or at least losing out on a lot more signups that they could be getting even if the site is doing ok without them.

Morph.

[SpannerProductions]

Thanks Mate,

Exactly the sort of info I needed to know - obviously a subject I need to look at more closely - not now, as I need to ge some shut eye !grin!, but would you object if i mailed you direct for some more advice on this subject?

Cheers

[Welshmorph]

Please do - morph@morphettes.com

[marshman]

Hi Spanner - Love em or loathe them you will definitely need them.

Barry

[31charlie]

Hi Spanner, if you are just starting out (and it sounds like you are) then you will probably be using CCBill as your payment processor. Speak to your account manager at CCBill as they have a good affiliate system as part of their package. It's easy to set up and will do exactly what you need.

[SpannerProductions]

Thanks Charlie - will check it out !bow!

[rgb]

CCBill held a party in London a few years ago and one of the account managers was saying he always advises people to work as an affiliate for a while before starting their own paysites so as to understand how the market works.

[Asylum]

If you want to run an affiliate properly then buy the right managment software. This does cost a small fortune and the monthly fees can be high but most good promotion sites prefer this.

[Daz Savage]

I have made so many enemies amongst the affiliates in this industry because of the things I'm about to say but let me state that I don't have issues with good and decent affiliates, just some of them that talk crap, act like it's THEIR OWN personal industry or that insist on running your website for you.
Furthermore, I have many great affiliates who I have a good relationship with but my opinion is that they are in the minority... and I'll tell you why.
(these are my experiences, take them or leave them)

1. have had affiliates insist on anything up to and including 80% of sales (and this is before any other costs have been taken off for transaction fees etc!)

2. I have had affiliates complain about the site because it is not set out EXACTLY as they want it. In some cases (early on) I made changes only to find that no traffic came from these people at all! Some affiliates are great at using interrogation software or sites like Alexa to see your traffic and then tell you you're a bag of shite - try it on them!

3. I have looked for affiliates on affiliate boards and been roasted because they assume that all sites should be accented towards the affiliates so that they can promote you easily... they demand the moon on a stick and are very cutting about your (apparent to them) lack of ability so I often ask them what it is that they are getting paid for since it looks like I'm doing all the work... their responses are often very defensive and caustic indeed.

4. I have had affiliates drone on about how my sites are wrong because they are not like SCORE, MET, ATK etc. etc. which is manifest nonsense and hardly worth arguing with suffice to say that most of the sites they mention started somewhere in the region of low-budget themselves and had to grow out of good content.

5. Important point their about the good content (product). Whenever I mention on a board about good content being the core of all marketing the vast majority of affiliates laugh and say that the affiliate program is more important and that content comes way down on the list of priorities.

6. Back to BIG site small site comparisons... any idiot with a computer and a credit-card can promote bangbros and turn a profit because it's practically a household name - well in some households perhaps! lol. The point is that some affiliates talk to you as though they are making a cure for cancer when the reality is that if you are creating the content, making their galleries, producing their banners and everything else they say all they are getting their cash for is advertising a name and the more well-known the name the easier it is to attract people to a site's free content and therefore push a few sales into the bargain!

7. Most affiliates act as though they are the possessors of all the knowledge in the universe and we producers are dumb-asses because we dare to suppose that we are in some way an important link in the chain.
I often use the analogy of crap food being sold well or great food being sold poorly. I personally think that I would prefer to have a small business producing what my customers like and grow steadily out of that than sell rubbish from behind a slick marketing campaign.

8. I have been told by an affiliate to give up what I do and become an affiliate for a year to find out what it's all about! The ludicrous nature of this argument is worth a mention... In what other area of business would the manufacturer 'down-tools' for such a length of time in order learn how to become a salesperson? You may find that a wider understanding of the sales and marketing process helps the whole marked cycle to speed up or become more efficient but to suggest that a producer just give it all up is infantile. Should all affiliates give it up for two years to learn my job?
And anyway, the only group of individuals I need to understand are my customers! I would certainly advise taking time to understand them.

9. A BIG point here. MY JOB! Hands up anyone who comes (as I do) from the producing side of this equation who agrees that taking photos and making movies is the easiest part. Granted, if you can do a thing it will appear easy to you but some affiliates act like they do all the work and are the geniuses... whilst the photographers are just wankers with cameras.

10. My visitor-to-sales- statistics have fallen like a lead balloon since getting heavily into affiliates and whilst there are some sales from my better affiliates there is evidence that mostly the sales are not in any way targeted. I have asked time after time for any affiliate to give me a breakdown of exactly what their processes are and never have I been given an answer. The reason for this is simple (and I know it because I have an acquaintance who is an affiliate and he accidentally showed me).
Let me tell you, it is decidedly simple and not very time consuming with site owners doing most of the creative work for them.

Whilst this seems like a rant against affiliates I must assure you that it is not! It is a rant against the assumption that we, small producers are bottom-feeders whilst any affiliate working out of his back-bedroom is a giant amongst men just because he signed up with SCORE or someone like that. The absolute lack of respect I have found from some affiliates has been astounding. I don't pretend to know everything about internet marketing but I know about my own areas and am prepared to give percentages to those who can fill-the-gaps so to speak but the abuse from some people is mind-blowing.

One of my best friends (as I mention whenever this subject rears its head) is an internationally renown internet marketing expert and business developer. He tours the world every year filling auditoriums with $1000-per-seat backsides and lectures companies about how to improve sales, create interest and increase customer loyalty (amongst other things). Whenever he reads the derisory things that affiliates say to me he laughs like an open drain!.. and the reason is this.

Google anything and affiliates come up on page 1!
This means that the affiliate system has effectively hijacked the porn industry. You want sales? then you must get your customers from us... you want our customers? then you must pay and do all the work for us to get you your next load... and we will pay you little (if any) respect for what you do mainly because we need to keep the illusion going that we're doing all the work and that it's too technical to explain to you dickheads - go back to playing with your camera thingies.

Being good with code does not make one a marketing genius or a captain of industry. The affiliates I have and support are those who act like we're in a partnership at the very least. Much of the above insights have actually come straight from emails from affiliates of mine who will speak out privately against the system they believe is slowly strangling the whole business because it relies too much on lazy people generating 'blunt' traffic and not enough on directly targeting sales to individuls.

I like the idea of affiliates and value the good ones - I just get the idea that most of them hate the idea of small producers that might expect them to actually do something specific.

Lastly, the reason for all this is that yes, you should get some affiliates. But be ready for a bumpy ride where everything you do or don't do will be picked apart... and I mean everything. Unless of course you manage two things.
1. Kiss ass like never before and bow down in worship before the people who make your existence worthwhile.
2. Just happen to be a huge site already with full-time employees producing tool for said affiliates - in which case affiliates will fall over each other to sign-up and kiss your ass.

imho