Disillusioned with the Industry

[Emily Cartwright]

Alice In Blunderland wrote:

> I never said models were prostitutes, I have no idea whether
> you do hardcore films or just erotic poses, however
> prostitution is women selling their bodies to punters either on
> the streets or in brothels, hardcore pornography is women
> selling their bodies on camera so while one may be more
> dangerous the product they are selling is the same- their body
> and this can apply to the much rarer breed of male prostitutes
> as well as porn actors.
>
> I understand your point about quality work but is Ben Dover any
> less of a professional or is his work rubbish for getting an
> erection while filming girls and joining in? to my mind if a
> photographer is really into a girl then it is more likely that
> he will do everything in his power to make her look as good as
> he can and will get a better performance out of the model- if
> the stuff is crap then the guy will suffer financially anyway
> so it is in his own interest to do a professional job, I have
> worked in jobs where I have really had the hots for women but I
> am still able to work professionaly with them and in fact find
> that my attraction to them makes me work better with them as a
> rule because there is a chemistry there rather than it just
> being a boring job, you can actually make it more enjoyable
> than somebody you just work with.
>
> Sorry but there must be young photographers who are red blooded
> and fairly new rather than many who are middle aged, balding,
> fat and probably cannot get it up any longer anyway- (no
> offence to anyone here but when I have seen guys photographing
> models on television this is usually what they look like) who
> some models are attracted to, does being a model mean you do
> not look at men sexually while they are shooting you, there
> must be lots of models who will be very happy to perform after
> the shoot either for some extra cash or because they are
> attracted to the guy doing the shooting and doing sexual poses
> or acts will get them even more in the mood.
>
> Again if he is told no and keeps badgering then that is wrong
> but what is wrong with asking once or the girl making it clear
> beforehand that she is not interested in anything other than
> doing the shoot or saying I will do so and so afterwards for
> this much? again you may only be there for the work but there
> must be a lot of girls who want something extra.
>
> I have no preconceptions, I just look at it from the point of
> view of human nature- many men will get erections when they
> have naked women in front of them and many women will like
> this, I don't buy into this oh he got an erection how dare he,
> avoid this guy like the plague stuff especially when it often
> comes from models who regularly get filmed with two dicks in
> their holes and another one in their mouth at the same time for
> guys to jerk off over, the whole point of these shoots is
> selling sex, in fact I would have thought that the models would
> be more worried if the guy did not get wood as they would
> likely be thinking god is anybody looking at this stuff going
> to get excited and is there something wrong with me or is it
> this guy is impotent ?


I work up to g/g, so in a very real sense I have sex on camera, either with myself or with another model.

It's very difficult to explain this so I'll try to be as concise as possible:

Until you have been on a porn shoot it is very difficult to understand how completely non-sexual they are. It is the model's job to portray sexual enjoyment, but the process of transferring that to tape is technical and requires concentration and organisation that frankly gets in the way of any kind of genuine sexual charge there might be.

Ben Dover is a professional performer as well as a producer. There is a difference between a professional male talent and a photographer with shaky hands syndrome. Professional performers are able to maintain a level of sexual arousal whilst focusing on delivering the performance, and it's a very difficult thing to achieve, which is why there are so few good male talents in the industry. A photographer who is more interested in fucking the model than filming a scene is a completely different matter.

Let's be very clear on this: Models who are prepared to have sex with photographers for extra cash after the shoot have stopped being models at that point and have become prostitues. Not that there's anything wrong with that in and of itself, but that doesn't mean it's okay to request the same service from every model who walks through your door.

This is pornography we are talking about here, NOT prostitution. It is okay for a producer to ask me if I do b/g, even though I don't, because he's still asking me about an aspect of adult acting. It is okay for him to ask me whether I'll fist myself whilst twenty guys jack off over my tits on camera, even though I don't do that, because he's still asking me about an aspect of adult acting. It is NOT okay for him to ask me whether I'll jack him off for a fee after the shoot, because that would make me a prostitute, not an adult actress. Yes, my job involves having sex on camera, but that doesn't mean that I'll happily fuck anyone off camera, and anyone who thinks it's okay to ask me to is completely unprofessional and I have no desire to work with unprofessional people. These women that you get on with so well at work, are they aware that you have sexual thoughts about them? No? Do you think they would still feel the same way about working with you if they knew you were thinking about fucking them? It's the same thing.

Also, no I wouldn't write off a guy who got a hardon during a shoot. It's happened a few times, and so what, as long as they don't start talking about it or suggest getting it out. But no, I don't get worried if a guy doesn't get an erection during the shoot, because most of the guys I work with are capable of making a scene that they KNOW will work really well without getting aroused by it themselves. Producers don't gauge the quality of a scene by how desperately horny they got when they were shooting it. Professional ones don't, anyway.

[Emily Cartwright]

Sam Slater wrote:

> Trouble is Emily, a lot of models 'are' offering extras
> after scenes. I think this causes a lot of confusion.
>
> While I agree with you that female performers shouldn't need to
> turn down sexual advances on every shoot, I can't blame the
> photographers/directors totally, unless their advances are
> constant, in spite of being told 'no'.
>
> Lets not beat around the bush- lots of performers escort
> themselves for extra money. Hell there's an agent who's whole
> set-up is based on providing porn stars as
> escorts.................and there are a 'LOT' of girls
> doing it. I've always said that any girl who escorts at
> the weekend means her current health certificate is void on the
> Monday morning....yet they work freely putting others at risk.
>
> Forget all the 'all our girls use condoms' bollocks as
> well. I know at least one of these escort/supposed porn star
> girls quoted unprotected sex at ?200 extra. I'd love to name
> her but alas it's against forum rules which I have to respect
> (even though other performers are put at risk).
>
> I think this problem is more serious than a sexual
> advance from a photographer, and ironically, denying escort
> girls jobs in the industry means less porn stars doing sexual
> favours, which may lead to less photographers thinking the girl
> on set is game.
>
> I've always been of the belief that if a girl escorts for extra
> cash, she's not earning enough as a porn star. If she's not
> earning enough as a porn star then she's not quite the
> performer that she thinks she is.

My point exactly. I'm not just blaming photographers for this attitude. I'm well aware that there are models who also do escorting work, mainly because on the rare occasions I do get unwanted offers it's usually accompanied by "So-and-so normally lets me do it". It makes it harder for the girls who are just models and only models and as an aside don't feel like they should have to be mistaken for escorts just because they do sexual things within the context of an adult shoot.

[Ron T. Storm]

Hi,

I got desensitized to the job and found art nude and working with shadows and skin tones very much more of a mental turn on for me. I have always liked the outdoors and am now trying to combine both the beauty of the female form and mother nature into a nice setting for an image.

Hope this makes sense,

SC69

[mark cremona]

let me be sure I understand you Alice, are you saying all females who perform in adult films are, in fact, Whores ? and should be accorded the same civilities and respect one might accord a Whore ?

just so I know.

[Emily Cartwright]

Alice In Blunderland wrote:

> I am a bit confused, can you explain the difference between
> models fucking men often those they are not attracted to on
> camera for money and a prostitute fucking guys they pick up on
> the street often who again they are not attracted to, also on
> the same theme how is it that a model can get penetrated, give
> blowjobs, handjobs etc on film and get paid for it but if she
> then does the same to the guy filming it afterwards for more
> money she is a prostitute all of a sudden, what is the
> difference? she is getting paid for doing the same acts so I do
> not see what line she has crossed.
>
> The women have been those who have feelings back and are of a
> flirty nature which makes it more interesting as you can say
> things to one another that if you would say to somebody else in
> the office who you do not have any chemistry with would
> probably get you into some bother.
>
> Like I said you obviously have your own standards but there
> will be a lot of girls who do not have the same standards but I
> would have thought when you are working for a new photographer
> the first thing a model would say would be this is what I do
> and this is what I don't do- after all if the last three girls
> he has used are all perfectly happy to perform acts on him
> afterwards then he is likely to ask is he not?

The difference is that the model does it on camera, with professional health-tested actors. Then she and the male actor are paid by a third party for their performance.

There is no material difference, sure. Technically, the girl is getting paid to have sex with someone she would not normally have sex with. But the difference here is not material, it's to do with people respecting how she chooses to define herself and the limits she has set out. If you went around calling all the adult actresses on here prostitutes, you'd get your arse banned so fast it would make your head spin. I choose to call myself an adult model or actress because I only get paid for sex on camera, and I make that very clear. You are free to think of that what you will, but no one has the right to assume that it means I'm happy to get paid for sex off camera, and no one has the right to tell me I should be okay with photographers asking for extras.

As you say, when a model is working for the first time with a photographer it needs to be determined what she will and won't do. Model and photographer. Not prostitute and client. I don't frankly care whether or not the last three girls a guy has dealt with have sucked his cock after the shoot, any photographer with half a brain will know after two shoots that what goes for one girl does not necessarily go for another, and crucially any professional photographer will know that you can't just go around asking all the girls for blowjobs because you'll end up with a bad reputation pretty sharpish - despite all the allegations of models who escort and so on, there is still a fat chunk of the industry that will not tolerate it.

[Phil mCc]

I believe the difference Alice is the product, and Mark don't call my bird names or she will I am sure knock fick out of you,

Phil McC

[bigAl]

Stormchild wrote:

"I got desensitized to the job and found
art nude and working with shadows and
skin tones very much more of a mental turn
on for me. I ... am now trying to combine
both the beauty of the female form and
mother nature into a nice setting for an image."

As an artist that makes 100% sense and I can see exactly where you're coming from.

And getting back to the original purpose of this post, best of luck with whatever you decide to do Matt.

Alan