old euro sleaze films

[Len801]

I am not going to give you my definition of US "community standards" because it is already part of the US judicial system and rulings that have been rendered over the years. But you should read this, below my message:

Basically "community standards" is not what producers believe it should be but as they are "applied by a jury in a particular locale". What may be "acceptable" say in a large and liberal metropolitan city like New York, may not be the same thing as applied to a small rural area in Florida or Texas. That is why the US feds have been playing these games for decades. They pick on someone (a porn producer), pick out some of the most extreme product and then order it through the mail or raid a sex shop in a certain locale of the country where they believe they will get a conviction and prosecute people for "oscenity" since there is no clear definition in law.

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Obscenity and Pornography State and federal laws attempt to enforc
e societal norms by encouraging acceptable depictions of human sexuality and eliding unacceptable portrayals. Over the years, libidinous books such as Lady Chatterly's Lover (1951?1975) and adult movies such as Deep Throat (1972) have rankled communities, which have struggled to determine whether such works should be censored as immoral, or protected as art.

The U.S. Supreme Court has always had difficulty distinguishing obscene material, which is not protected by the First Amendment, from material that is merely salacious or titillating. Justice Potter Stewart admitted that he could not define obscenity, but quipped, "I know it when I see it." Nonetheless, the Court has articulated a three-part test to determine when sexually oriented material is obscene. Material will not be declared obscene unless (1) the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that its predominant theme appeals to a "prurient" interest;(2) it depicts or describes sexual activity in a "patently offensive" manner; and (3) it lacks, when taken as a whole, serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value (miller v. california, 413 U.S. 15 93 S. Ct. 2607, 37 L. Ed. 2d 419 [1973]).

Although the U.S. Supreme Court has failed to adequately define words like prurient, patently offensive, and serious artistic value, literary works that involve sexually related material are strongly protected by the First Amendment, as are magazines like Playboy and Penthouse. More difficult questions are presented in the area of adult cinema. Courts generally distinguish hard-core pornography, which graphically depicts copulation and oral sex, from soft-core pornography, which displays nudity and human sexuality short of these sex acts. In close cases that fall somewhere in the gray areas of pornography, the outcome may turn on the community standards applied by a jury in a particular locale. Thus, pornography that could be prohibited as obscene in a small rural community might receive First Amendment protection in Times Square.

The reach of the Internet has led to the distribution of sexually explicit materials through cyberspace. The federal government has sought to regulate this material, but the U.S. Supreme Court has found First Amendment violations. In Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, 535 U.S. 234, 122 S. Ct. 1389, 152 L. Ed.2d 403(2002), the Court struck down provisions of the Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996 (CPPA) because they censored legally protected speech as well as unprotected speech. It noted that the law sought to ban "virtual child pornography," which is produced through computer-generated imaging or youthful-looking adults. The greatest constitutional problems came from the failure of Congress to comply with each element of the Miller test. Congress had not required that the material be "offensive" or that it "appealed to prurient interests" in order to violate the law. This made the law overbroad under the First Amendment because all material depicting sexual conduct of persons under 18 years of age would be prohibited, despite any underlying merit or value.

[stefano romantico]

A kreativ revolution is koming . Taking no prisoners . The war ist on . stefano romantico

[aolo100]

I'm glad people are discussing this issue of censorship. American obsenity laws do seem to be the reason American porn is so unwatchable; and why good Euro porn is generally hard to find in America.

[Len801]

Author: aolo100
Date: 06-30-09 01:43

I'm glad people are discussing this issue of censorship. American obsenity laws do seem to be the reason American porn is so unwatchable; and why good Euro porn is generally hard to find in America
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Censorship was more hard fought in the US than many other places, both in written form (books, plays) and cinema. Cinema was a rather strange child, held in a different light. It is true that euro mainstream cinema was somewhat more relaxed than its american brethren (nudity, mature subject matter), but by the late 1960's with the creation of CARA abolishing censorship and movie classification in several US states in place of a national one brought about a major change, which quickly allowed the production of hard core movies. It took a year for I AM CURIOUS YELLOW and after a breaktrough court case before it could be shown in the US (and this was frontal male and female nudity). Then all hell brooke loose.
In Italy, THE LAST TANGO IN PARIS was banned and could not be shown for quite some time. Often movies with controversial themes were confiscated just on the whim of a private citizen who made a complaint that it offended his/her sensibilities.
But US porn in the 1970's has nothing to be ashamed of when compared to what Europe was producing at the time, nor do I agree that Euro porn (which is practically 98% plot driven movies) of today is of better quality than what is being made in the US. Yes there are a few euro gems (PUSSY TALK, MES NUITS AVEC..., SENSATIONAL JANINE, etc) of the 1970's but US by that time was making excellent hc movies as well, and it peaked in the early 1980's with the advent of video. Until 1988 US producers kept battling authorities largely over pandering laws, but they kept churning them out just the same. If it was not for their dogged spirits, you would not have the porn industry that is today. Max Hardcore was defiant and kept making the kind of mysoginistic (and to many, repellent) movies he wanted to make and now is in jail. But euro audiences could see his uncut movies, while american consumers could not. Yes sure, euro porn consumers can see movies about incest, sexy nuns and priests, fisting and bestiality while the US population cannot, but that does make those movies any better than their Us counterparts.

[aolo100]

The U.S. is an uptight country and this is reflected in our obscenity laws which strangle the creativity and quality of the erotic cinema produced here. The differences between euro and american porn are sometimes great (fisting, etc) but often they are far more subtle. i have yet to see any american porn, from any decade, that rivals the best that europe, and particularly Germany and France, has produced.



But US porn in the 1970's has nothing to be ashamed of when compared to what Europe was producing at the time, nor do I agree that Euro porn (which is practically 98% plot driven movies) of today is of better quality than what is being made in the US. Yes there are a few euro gems (PUSSY TALK, MES NUITS AVEC..., SENSATIONAL JANINE, etc) of the 1970's but US by that time was making excellent hc movies as well, and it peaked in the early 1980's with the advent of video.


Yes sure, euro porn consumers can see movies about incest, sexy nuns and priests, fisting and bestiality while the US population cannot, but that does make those movies any better than their Us counterparts.

[stefano romantico]

To you aolo100 you are fucking great . You fucking get it . Congratalations , you are special . To you Len801 , i like my euro sleaze und my francie porn films 98 procent plot driven . Iam very artistik . Us.a. trash und porn films of 70s dont work for me . I actually hate them . The actors und actresses look like they need a fix und they look real unkomfortable in front of the kamera . Give me racconti sensuali mit ciciolina , my favourite extrem film any day over the taming of rebecca . stefano romantico

[Len801]

Since you dislike some much US porn movies of the 1970's and prefer the euro ones, then mention say 10-20-30 euro movies of that peeriod that deserve mention.
1970's US porn and well into the 1990's US porn was plot driven like the Euro kind, so comparison should be relatively easy. What was Europe producing in that period that way surpasses what the US porn industry was making.
How can you say the US performers don't look "relaxed" (define relax) in those movies (mention some, please) while their euro counterparts supposedly are. And how can you say the Euro female performers of that period were that much better looking than the Euro female perfrmers? Offer some evidence please.
US porn producers were waging battles with censors and authorities way before the Euro counterpats. You think French and Italian porn industry would have began when (and how) it did if the US had no paved the way? Americans were screening their porn feature plot-driven movies at Cannes Film Festival as early as May 1972 when nothing of any merit was being produced in Europe at that time.

[Bad Samaritan]

Len801, I can agree with lots of points in your argument but you're underestimating the impact of Denmark, Sweden, and Netherlands on the development of European porn scene. What American porn primarily served for was to convince people that you could make some big money through pornography.

[stefano romantico]

Len801 you take things too personally .I guess the truth hurts . Your defending passionless porn . Look at my internet site it is on my profile und you will see alot of titles of films i love . This is egafd not u.s.a. gfd . Ja i belive the girls und men in u.s.a. porn are terrible looking und terrible at acting . Keep defending und i will keep ripping . I will not submit . This is war . 60s , 70 und 80s eurosleaze und euro porn films for my life . The domination of old u.s.a. porn films und neu macho men gonzo, reality und komputer porn will be eliminated . I am the opposer of gonzo und i will fight till my death . stefano romantico

[Len801]

Nothing hurts, and I do not take any comment from you or others in this topic on a persona level. I do not consider this a "war" and I am not waging any battle. I do not have any dog in this fight. I tried to be analytical in the way movie censorship developed in the USA and elsewhere.
I saw you list of favorite movies in your site:
avourite Films
1.Emanuelle in America - Joe D?Amato
2.Porno Holaucaust - Joe D?Amato
3.Bezond the Darkness - Joe D?Amato
4.La Bimba Di Satana - Mario Bianchi Montero
5.Malabimba - Andrea Bianchi
6.La Residencia The Finishing school - Narcisco Ibanez Serrador
7.Vanessa - Hubert Frank
8.Lo speccio Delpiacere - Jees Franco
9.Love Letters of a Portugese Nun - Jess Franco
10.Oscenita - Renato Pollselli
11.La bestia in calore - Luigi Batzella (Paolo Solvay)
12.Giallo A Venezia - Mario Landi
13.Patrick Vive Ancora - Mario Landi
14.Hexen bis Aufs blut Geguaelt- Michael Armstrong und Adrian Hoven
15.Lorely?s Grasp (Garras De Lorelei) - Amando De Ossorio
16.Immagini Di Un Convento - Joe D?Amato

I don't consider many of these in the hardcore sense (mostly trash horror cinema), so comparison with US counterparts is rather difficult.
Some claim was made in earlier posts that US porn actresses were not "relaxed" (because supposedly they were acting in "illegal" films). I tried to debate this assertion and asked for evidence and none was offered by you or anyone. The same is now being claimed that US performers (male/female) are unattractive and have poor acting skills (of what period: the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's??). Again I ask for names, so some analysis can be made.