Tracey Adams.

[Len801]

Sorry Mark,
I have a hard time grasping the points your are trying to make.
Are you referring to the filmos in general, a specific one, or to the fact that I have indicated Tracey Adams has not done anals?
If your are refrring to whether Adams has done anals or not, take the following:
= Tracy claims she has NOT done any on film. I know, one cannot take for face value what a porn actress/actor has to say, but she says she has tried it in private and does not like it. Let's look at the other points.
= Tracey had a varied porn film career in the USA and soon after in Europe. No US films have turned up which contain anal scenes from her. No Euro films have turned up which contain anal scenes.
= No one with any serious knowledge of her filmography has even advanced the notion that she did anal scenes. No one has seen any, period.
= Tracey did not use pseudonyms in her US or Euro movie career that I know of, so it would be difficult to unearth some obscure Euro movie she did on the sly under a false name (wearing a wig, etc).
= Tracey was not known to be an "extreme" actress and her performances were never really of the scorching variety (ex: Debi Diamond, etc). More to the point, she hardly ever did facials.
If you feel comfortable with me or others in this forum to say it is "unlikely" Tracy did anals so be it, but all that has surfaced is rather poorly executed photo layouts of her performing anal with Roberto Malone.
However, if you are referring to something else, please clarify.
Regards.

========================================
Author: mark shanon
Date: 02-18-06 15:34

>One can never be complete, of course,


So how can you affirm with absolute certainty that a performer never practiced a certain sexual variation? Why not using words like "unlikely", "improbable" and so on when talking about porn? I think it would be more correct.

[mark shanon]

>so it would be difficult to unearth some obscure Euro movie she did on the sly under a false name (wearing a wig, etc).

You do not seem to be very knowledgeable about the ways pornographers worked and still work. Expecially you do not know what the porn was like in the '70's and in the '80's. Let's make an example. You happen to own a movie for which you do not want to pay the rights for the video release. What do you do? You release it with another movie's credits. Or you release it with totally false credits. Another example. You have payed a performer for a certain number of movies but you release more by inserting outtakes in other ones and not mentioning his\her name.
I know for certain there is at least one Tracey's italian movie released like that (i.e. with totally invented credits and her name not mentioned) which happen to be (as far as I know) the only available release of that movie. Is it legitimate to assume there may be other ones around?
But also watching a movie like Femmine bizzarre one wonders (at least I do) where the slices the movie is made up come from: was that movie thought up fragmentarily like that or the single episodes are taken from other movies we do not know of? You make it sound too easy what , take my word for it, is not.

[Len801]

Whatever you say Mark.
But notwithstanding what you say, I DO have a pretty good idea how hardcore films were/are exploited in the US and in Europe.
I started renting h/c movies about 25 yrs ago, but was reading about it much earlier. I AM pretty well aware how the French, Italians and Germans (as well as other countries) keep repackaging old films with new box cover art, cast names, etc. In the USA Leisure Time kept repackaging their film (sometimes using the same name but just slapping on an extra sene) in the late 1980' and early 1990's.
I also know that Tracey shot a movie in Russia, she apparently directed it so she says under a false name. But there she is on the box cover, she never hid her name whenever she was featured in a movie.
Can I or can you find info on every film Tracey ever made. I have no such illusions, and have never made such claims. When I say "complete", I mean as complete as possible. No Database is ever complete, not IMDB, not IAFD not EGAFD. We do the best we can, with what we have. Even actresses have no clues as to the movies they made, so it is up to us to find them.
I never take compiling filmographies as a easy task. But I take it in good stride. The Colonel has been trying to put one together for Deborah Wells for years and still is going at it. I was just happy to help him along. I think I can take a stab at Tracey Adams filmo, and you can see a rough cut in the SZ forum. If you are disappointed with what is there, I am sorry, but that is all I can do for now.

===============================

Author: mark shanon
Date: 02-18-06 20:36

You do not seem to be very knowledgeable about the ways pornographers worked and still work. Expecially you do not know what the porn was like in the '70's and in the '80's. Let's make an example. You happen to own a movie for which you do not want to pay the rights for the video release. What do you do? You release it with another movie's credits. Or you release it with totally false credits. Another example. You have payed a performer for a certain number of movies but you release more by inserting outtakes in other ones and not mentioning his\her name.
I know for certain there is at least one Tracey's italian movie released like that (i.e. with totally invented credits and her name not mentioned) which happen to be (as far as I know) the only available release of that movie. Is it legitimate to assume there may be other ones around?
But also watching a movie like Femmine bizzarre one wonders (at least I do) where the slices the movie is made up come from: was that movie thought up fragmentarily like that or the single episodes are taken from other movies we do not know of? You make it sound too easy what , take my word for it, is not.

[Len801]

I know what you are saying Mark. I know Gerard Damiano has slapped his name on an Italian film, and even on a US film (WATER POWER) which is attributed to another director (see my filmo on G. Damiano for details).
I also know that Constance Money did not star in all the movies attributed to her. BARBARA BROADCAST and MARASCHINO CHERRY contained outtakes from MISTY BEETHOVEN, and she sued Henry Paris over it. She does not even speak the lines in MISTY BEETHOVEN.
In the 1980's I believe there was a director called John Stallion who hired several actors and actresses and shot miles of footage, and never paid the talent. Some of that footage I believe was later found in compilations. As I stated befiore Leisure Time kept repackaging their videos, with new box cover art and inserting an additional scene and making you believe it was a totallly different movie. There are extreme scenes shot in US movies (fisting, golden showers) which are never realeased in the USA, but only abroad (Max Hardcore, etc).
When Traci Lords was discovered to be underage in summer 1986, her tapes were recalled and some were re-released with a different name or with her scenes deleted or new scenes added in.
I recently exchanged messages with Alec at EGAFD regarding RAVE PARTY (2003). In the German version the director is shown as Frank de Luca, while in the Italian it is indicated as Francesco Avon. And you know what, at the end of the movie credits (in thwe Italian version), the director name is shown as Frank Pharro. Confusing enough for you?
Have you ever accessed a porn actress' website and examined the movies they list in their filmography (even if they put one up, which is a rarity)? Boy do they screw up on dates, titles, etc. As I said beofre, many don't even have a clue as to the movies they made. They get paid for a scene and they are not even told what the name of the movie is. They do not record what they have done. They are too busy in the various activities they have.
You only need to take a look at the filmographies Sbando has put up for eastern european actresses at Eurobabeindex.com. Many of these have used a dozen names in their short/long career. Does this deter him from putting up a filmography???
Do you think IAFD is complete with their filmographies? I have found tons of mistakes, but it is a free and invaluable service they provide, and we should all be grateful for the ones who make the effort.
EGAFD is not complete when it comes to Euro actreses. There are many gaps in their filmographies. For some titles, all they have up is the name of the movie and just one cast name.
What I am trying to say is, we may not be able to find and track down all Tracy's films, but we can certainly take a good stab at it. And I am willing to try, even if in the end there may be gaps.

=====================


You do not seem to be very knowledgeable about the ways pornographers worked and still work. Expecially you do not know what the porn was like in the '70's and in the '80's. Let's make an example. You happen to own a movie for which you do not want to pay the rights for the video release. What do you do? You release it with another movie's credits. Or you release it with totally false credits. Another example. You have payed a performer for a certain number of movies but you release more by inserting outtakes in other ones and not mentioning his\her name.

[mark shanon]

You have suddenly gotten aware of the other people's filmographies' fallacies. But I can't seem to remember alec or the folks at IAFD or Patrick Riley ever touting their job as "complete. No compiler in his senses would ever do that.

[notansordo23]

For me, your work it's a wonderful work !

Bravo !

[Len801]

Mark, I don't know why you are so hung up on the word "complete". I already explained how I define it. What more can I add?
"Complete" to me, means when I am satisfied that I tracked down everything I possibly could on a particular actor/actress or film.
Nothing more, nothing less.
You need not get so traumatic over it.
I am touting absolutely nothing. I have never said that I have all there is to say about a certain actress' filmography. I gather as much info as I can, sometimes I locate titles and info not in EGAFD and quite often straighten out errors and omissions found at IAFD. That is where I differ from these two databases, I try to find US and Euro titles, whereas EGAFD only lists Euro work and IAFD only lists films that have been released in the US.
Eurobabeindex only lists film titles (and often provides a box cover).
I will try to clarify further: Because I do and modifiy a lot of filmographies in Super Zeta forum (some made by me, and some initially made by others) in order for me to remember which one has been "modified" and as near complete as I could make it, I simply put a notation (next to their main name) saying "modificata" (meaning modified). They are "complete" to me in the sense that I have covered the US or Euro films, soft core movies if they have made some, etc, located sites where these films are sold, give link credits where I located a box cover. That's it.
I am not in competition with IAFD, Sbando, EGAFD, IMDB, it is something I do in my leisure time in the space allotted at the SZ forum. You can see by the number of "clicks" to what degree a filmography is popular or not. The Deborah Wells (the pride of The Colonel) filmo has had 9,000 clicks, while Selen has had about 7,000 clicks and Rosa Caracciolo (Rocco Siffredi's wife) has had a surprising 6,600 clicks.
I really don't know why are having this discussion, as it is really a non-issue. I assume, we are in this forum because we want to improve on this Database. If I have info which can help, I am more than willing to share, and which I often do. I know you do the same, and for which we should all be grateful.
With reference to Tracey Adams, she is a favorite actress of mine. I joined her Shrine Site at MSN, and have been in contact with one of the administrators. He promised to assist with info and the fact he is in personal contact with Tracy. Communcation broke down rather suddenly, and it has not been possible for me to make contact with her (she says she does not want to discuss her h/c movie career, so I see no need to pester her with such requests). Becase of other technical problems associated with the server at the SZ forum and a certain lack of time, I have for the time being set aside work on her filmo, but it is something that intend to return to in the very near future. Will it ever be complete? Perhaps not in the sense that you would be ecstatic about, but I don't see any other filmo in the internet (at the present time) of Tracy which probably would come close to.

========================================

Author: mark shanon
Date: 02-19-06 04:16

You have suddenly gotten aware of the other people's filmographies' fallacies. But I can't seem to remember alec or the folks at IAFD or Patrick Riley ever touting their job as "complete. No compiler in his senses would ever do that.

[mark shanon]

>"Complete" to me, means when I am satisfied that I tracked down everything I possibly could on a particular actor/actress or film.
>Nothing more, nothing less.
>You need not get so traumatic over it.

What is getting traumatic is the improper use you make of language. "Complete" can have only one meaning, and that doesn't belong in porn. What you find that is satisfying to you it isn't what is satisfying to me.
So you want to keep, contradictorily, describing your filmographies as in progress and define as complete? Well, no problem: everybody has a right to his illusions.

[Len801]

First you scoff at me for trying to do a Tracy Adams filmo.
Then you say I know nothing of porn from the 1970's and 1980's (how do you know, and where did you get it from, or are you the only one around that does??)
Then you get into tizzy over the word "complete", what it means to you, what it means to me and what it means to the world at large. Yes the dictionary defines it as "nothing missing". Does that make you feel better, are you going be able to sleep at night??
Did you recently lose a pet? A very rich aunt has taken you out of her will?
What is it with you this weekend?
I have suddenly becoming an easy target for your silly tirades??
It's just a filmography I am doing on Tracey Adams. Relax....
If at the end I will have omitted a couple of titles or have missed some information, so what of it? You are going to get the villagers to light up the torches and burn my home down?
Why don't you do one on her, since you seem to know such more more and then you can really call yours the "really complete filmography of Tracy Adams" and publish it somewhere and make a bundle.
You know what, I will stay out of your way and any posts you participate in and perhaps you can do the same for me, that is if you can really resist the tempation to hit on me again. I have no interest in responding to you further on this topic or any other topic. You can go pick on someone else for the next little while.




What is getting traumatic is the improper use you make of language. "Complete" can have only one meaning, and that doesn't belong in porn. What you find that is satisfying to you it isn't what is satisfying to me.
So you want to keep, contradictorily, describing your filmographies as in progress and define as complete? Well, no problem: everybody has a right to his illusions

[mark shanon]

>Why don't you do one on her, since you seem to know such more more and >then you can really call yours the "really complete filmography of Tracy >Adams" and publish it somewhere and make a bundle.

You keep not understanding. I can't make a "complete filmography of Tracey Adams" or of whoever porn performer. The compilation of a "complete filmography" of any pornstar is theoretically impossible: that's what I'm trying (vainly, apparently) to make you understand. I don't care about your activity or whatever, actually in some ways it is useful. But I don't accept his first assumption: if this hurts your feelings, sorry. But I think you're wrong and I can't but say it.

And include this in your filmo:

[IMG]http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4193/stravaganzebestiali5pn.th.jpg[/IMG]

This is a german release of same, without Tracey's name on the cover.
[IMG]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1889/schamlose5he.th.png[/IMG]