Problems with R18

[DavidS]

Although the introduction of the R18 category a few years ago as a result of a judicial review was welcome, I do, nevertheless, believe that the industry has done few favours to either itself or its customers in the way it has taken advantage of its new found freedoms. I do, of course, appreciate that we still do not enjoy the same freedoms in the UK that the rest of Europe generally does.

My main criticism of R18's. Too many, far too many, of the films submitted are of a poor standard and too many are made in the USA, whose porn is generally of a much lower standard than is usually the case in Europe. I appreciate that content in some European films would result in either heavy cuts or the refusal of a certificate. Nevertheless there are sufficient quality European films around that would get a R18 without difficulty. Personally I would like to see some of the real quality German & French Porn feature films of the 1970's & 80's submitted for certification, rather than the American or 'mid-Atlantic' (i.e. European films, usually Hungarian made with an eye on the American market) that we now have to endure.

[ohwonder]

The R18 category in Australia refers to tapes that are without penetrative explicit sex (xxx tapes are a grey area but with bin liner about the authorities have more important things to do). I dont know if this is the same in the Uk, you can hire R18 tapes those that have Joey Silvera, Sharon Mitchell and others..all upper body shots. I am suprised they sell as the difference between a R18 and XXX price wise is neglible.
An interesting study would be to get a R18 version and its xxx counterpart and see what is left out for the R18 catergory....But I rather watch StarTrek:TNG. Here the ex-censor is making porn tapes!!!!
We went through a phase of new censorship via pixalisation and I really have not recently bought a vhs/dvd to understand fully how tapes are classified(we dont seem to like Tornado/dbm tapes here)
I guess in the Uk you need to take a trip to the Continent if you want to get a decent tape.
Another issue is the cost of certification and I would guess European tapes here would have a small sales base to cover that cost.
Here they did release Marilyn Chambers tapes that did not really sell well. I found that the good tapes get sold and never come back.

[DavidS]

The situation in the UK is substantially different to what would appear to be the case in Australia. It would seem that in Australia the situation is rather similar to what it was in the UK a few years ago, indeed it would seem to be very similar to the position we are in regarding adult tv programmes. My understanding is that the R18 category was only brought in to comply with the findings of a judicial review. Since that there has been a change of personnel at BBFC. The new regime is reasonably liberal in what they are prepared to pass. However because the change is not formalised in law there are ambiguities. E.g. H.M. Customs can still seize films brought in from abroad even though the identical film has been given a R18 certificate by BBFC without cuts. I am unclear what the position is about films imported into UK for the purpose of being examined by the Board! It is important to realise that the situation could change by parliament changing the law. It is unlikely that new legislation would be as liberal as the situation is now.
Another problem with R18 is that they can only be sold in a licensed sex shop. If you live in an area where the local Authority will not issue licences, you are rather snookered. Also it is difficult if only one shop in a town or city is licenced. The prices are then very high. I am in that position and the chain that own my local shop always seem to be in dispute with one or other of the major distributors. This restricts the choice of films further. Ohwonder is correct though. The best way to get films is to travel to Europe.

[joe king]

I see 3 problems
1. documentation - if the BBFC says 'how old is that girl/woman' I doubt some films would have been so strictly documented and the BBFC would not give the film a certificate.
2. Money - US/Sterling is very good, the US has a definate industry and the prices are good. It is easier I think to import pre-manufactured high-quality stuff.
3. The age range of porn viewers is not clear to me but I suppose 'new' stuff would sell better although 'Deep Throat' is an old film with a remarkable reputation. Most of the 70/80's films have no reputation whatsoever.

Costs of certification are possibly a barrier to low unit yields.

[woodgnome]

DavidS wrote:

> ambiguities. E.g. H.M. Customs can still seize films brought in
> from abroad even though the identical film has been given a R18
> certificate by BBFC without cuts. I am unclear what the

if a film being brought into this country is identical to one that has already been passed by the bbfc, hmc&e will have no interest in it. in fact, you can now bring any uncertificated material you like into this country without fear of reprisals - as long as it complies with current bbfc guidelines as to the content of r18 material (see section 1.5 of the egafd faq for further details).

> position is about films imported into UK for the purpose of
> being examined by the Board! It is important to realise that
> the situation could change by parliament changing the law. It
> is unlikely that new legislation would be as liberal as the
> situation is now.

i think this is unduly pessimistic. police resources are stretched to the limit as it is and the last thing they would want is for a substantial section of the population to be criminalised for possession of material produced by and for consenting adults. the overwhelming concern of the authorities is with non-consensual material - i.e. stuff that involves minors, animals or non-consenting adults. that's almost certainly what their position would be if consulted by politicians on any future legislation and politicians would no doubt abide by it - especially after having the cost implications explained to them.

besides, with many thousands of h/c tapes already certificated and in circulation, the contradictions inherent in the introduction of any draconian legislation would not only create confusion where there is now a degree of clarity but also leave the whole system open to judicial ridicule.

> though. The best way to get films is to travel to Europe.

travel? what's wrong with using the net? it's cheaper, easier and officially okay to do so - again, as long as the material being imported complies with current bbfc r18 guidelines.

[ohwonder]

A few experiences here In Australia
in the state of South Australia adult material was allowed as long as the participants "seemed happy" this lead to anything as long as people seemed happy..This has been rectified.
You could get your tape cleared by Customs this lead to your tape being banned and the identical tape being available in shops...very poor idea...really depeneded on the reviewing officer.
Classification ended up being a way of monopolisation of the market....we have a chain here called ClubX...during the change of laws they put around the idea of "couples tape" often being those late 80's tapes starring Mike Horner pull out and cum on the backside...you get the idea...this chain had the idea of selling these types of tapes and stopping all other shops selling Dolly Buster stuff.
Here when tapes are confiscated each tape must be looked at, reviewed and clasiffied an impossible task considering a shop could lose 000's of tape in a crackdown.
Private tapes did put a stop to a lot of dealers over breach of copyright, which cleaned up the market better than censorship laws as many tapes here were pirated.Considering each breach is $50000 one tape from a shop enough to close it down.
In the uk their r18 seems different to ours they show sex we dont.

[Herschi]

Hi DavidS,
I think I have understood you.
It is a progress back.

The cheap video camera has caused this problem.
Every man can buy a Videocamera for himself today.
Whe then shoot a film once than: ec.ec.ec.

______
Herschi

[DavidS]

Thank you Herschi.

The films I am talking about were made about 25 years ago. It therefore follows that few of the potential customers now in the UK would have seen them. This is for reasons of age and the fact that they were made for cinema release but, of course, could not be shown in British cinemas. Joe King raises a valid point about the certification not being available regarding the age of the actors, but these films were shown all over Europe in cinemas, surely, therefore, in view of their age, the BBFC should give them 'grandfather' rights. I readily concede that Hans Billian and other directors did perhaps sail close to the wind in regard to the age of some of the people, male & female, who appeared in their films. Although a few may have been just under 18 I certainly do not think there was anyone under 16. We have to remember the mores of the time, not what they are now.
The reason some of the actors were young is the same reason that some are old. The directors of the time had had a career in the ordinary (non-porn) cinema. There you would cast somebody because they are suited to the role. You would not cast someone in their 20's as a teenager. This casting is evident in other regards. If the script called for an actor with a large penis, then a suitable actor was used. Perhaps Joe is right. there may
not be the potential market to make these films viable for re-release. Herzog is re-releasing them in Germany though. I concede that they don't have the certification cost though.

[Richard B]

Just on the HM Customs bit, I've got personal experience of bringing about 20 videos through Waterloo on Eurostar. All mainstream stuff (the sort of b/g hardcore stuff that gets R18 certificate all the time now here in the UK).

It looked like they were stopping everyone that morning and I got pulled over. The Customs officer had a brief look at each tape to see that it was R18style stuff, then after checking with a colleague, gave me all the tapes back and let me through.

I had checked the threads on Customs advice on which included a link to the official Customs site so was pretty confident everything would be OK, but R18 and the new Customs guidance were both quite new then (two years ago) and I was a bit worried.

As I happens, I needn't have been concerned - as long as the material would get an R18 cert here, as Woodgnome said, HM Customs will leave you alone.

Re the law in the UK, personally I think R18 is here to stay and it's my impression from bgafd and looking at the bbfc site that fewer and fewer cuts are being made, if any at all.

As for buying new tapes, there really is a great selection in Soho (I find the two branches of Soho's Original Books best) - good prices, half price exchange and all completely legal.

[pudgym]

DavidS scribed:
{edited by the BBFC - no, not really}
> My main criticism of R18's. Too many, far too many, of the
> films submitted are of a poor standard and too many are made in
> the USA, whose porn is generally of a much lower standard than
> is usually the case in Europe.
Now wait a minute here.
Do you believe that U.S. directors of explicit movies and videos would not like to be able to release _contemporary_ films with plot lines similar to "Expensive Taste" (1979), "Girls In Blue" (1983), or "The Autobiography Of A Flea" (1976)?
The major problem here is: If they even thought about it, they might likely be arrested. The federal government is embarking upon a new assault on the explicit movie industry here. It has indicted _Extreme Associates_ for shipping videocassettes from California into western Pennsylvania, and for making it available on the Internet. The federal prosecutors' association has intimated that it will go after porn community-by-community. (It has gone as far as stating that even Playboy magazine may violate some communities' standards.)
So since they can't make those kind of movies; they have resorted to 'lowest common denominator' productions. These are videos which feature, for the most part, females being swived, both vaginally, and up the arse, and being spermed on ther faces. No plot line, no character development, just 'going-through-the-motions' mechanical sex.
There is a solid audience for videos like this. They will rent *everything* which features this. They are the industry's best customers. Subsequently, the industry continues to churn out videos like this, to the near-complete exclusion of everything else.
Subsequently, when people ask me for what videos they should view if they don't want to see something like this, I keep referring them back to older movies from the 1980s & 1970s.

> I appreciate that content in some European films would result
> in either heavy cuts or the refusal of a certificate. Nevertheless
> there are sufficient quality European films around that would
> get a R18 without difficulty. Personally I would like to see
> some of the real quality German & French Porn feature films
> of the 1970's & 80's submitted for certification, rather than
> the American or 'mid-Atlantic' (i.e. European films, usually
> Hungarian made with an eye on the American market) that
> we now have to endure.
O.K. It is somewhat strange that only now are some purveyors in the U.S.A. offering European hardcore movies of the late 1970s, many of which got neither a theatrical nor a videocassette release here. Is there a market for them? Absolutely. Anything you have never viewed is new to you, whether it was lensed in 1977, or 1999. And they are being offered at sell-through (not rental) prices.
We hope you share our concern. The result of this first federal prosecution in western Pennsylvania, along with the Presidential election in November, could *substantially* alter the topography of erotica here.
(And merely inquiring about the availability of a David Hamilton movie from the early 1980s could land that person on the authorities' monitoring list.)