David Johnson wrote:
> "Usually they accept immigrants via a green card system and
> with a nice big wedge of cash in their bank whereas here its
> more the case of no money, no skills welcome aboard!"
>
> This is incorrect.
>
Surely he is talking about America. Never heard of a green card here ? and remember I am married to an immigrant...
Farewell Abu Qatada
Re: Essex Lad
cockneygeezer2009 wrote:
> "Tell me, what other countries have over the years assimilated
> so many immigrants with next to no civil disturbances"?
>
> USA.
Really? Perhaps you are forgetting the riots in Watts, the ones after OJ Simpson's acquittal, the riots caused by the Freedom Riders, the Rodney King riots...
> "Tell me, what other countries have over the years assimilated
> so many immigrants with next to no civil disturbances"?
>
> USA.
Really? Perhaps you are forgetting the riots in Watts, the ones after OJ Simpson's acquittal, the riots caused by the Freedom Riders, the Rodney King riots...
Re: Spider
David Johnson wrote:
> "All of the above statements are utter crap".
>
> Quite right.
>
> 1980 St. Pauls riot, 1981 Chapeltown Caribbean riot, 1981 Moss
> Side riot, 1981 Toxteth riots, 1985 Handsworth riots, 1989
> Dewsbury riot, 2001 Bradford riots, 2001 Oldham riots, 2005
> Birmingham riots, 1981 Brixton riot, 1985 Brixton riot,
> Broadwater Farm riot, 1975 Chapeltown riot, 2011 riot off the
> back of the shooting of Mark Duggan.
>
> The huge rise in support for the anti-immigrant UKIP party.
> The support for the EDL that we see demonstrating in our major
> cities.
>
> All of the above suggest that "'We are, without doubt, the most
> tolerant country in the world." is not backed up by the facts
> unless people were rioting just for a laugh rather than through
> a sense of grievance about how they were treated.
You are not quoting like for like. Most of the incidents you list involved West Indians, most of whose families had been here 20-30 years by the time the events happened. And the majority of them were black on black or black against the police. Their grievances were not because their parents had been here for 20-30 years. The Broadwater Farm riots occurred after police raided the home of a West Indian woman who suffered a heart attack and died. It could just as easily have been a white family.
The events did not happen because of immigration per se.
The reason for the rise of Ukip is because of uncontrolled immigration from eastern Europe but it is also a protest against the three main parties who follow all the same policies. The EDL because of what they perceive as Muslims getting an easier ride than non-Muslims who make provocative statements.
> "All of the above statements are utter crap".
>
> Quite right.
>
> 1980 St. Pauls riot, 1981 Chapeltown Caribbean riot, 1981 Moss
> Side riot, 1981 Toxteth riots, 1985 Handsworth riots, 1989
> Dewsbury riot, 2001 Bradford riots, 2001 Oldham riots, 2005
> Birmingham riots, 1981 Brixton riot, 1985 Brixton riot,
> Broadwater Farm riot, 1975 Chapeltown riot, 2011 riot off the
> back of the shooting of Mark Duggan.
>
> The huge rise in support for the anti-immigrant UKIP party.
> The support for the EDL that we see demonstrating in our major
> cities.
>
> All of the above suggest that "'We are, without doubt, the most
> tolerant country in the world." is not backed up by the facts
> unless people were rioting just for a laugh rather than through
> a sense of grievance about how they were treated.
You are not quoting like for like. Most of the incidents you list involved West Indians, most of whose families had been here 20-30 years by the time the events happened. And the majority of them were black on black or black against the police. Their grievances were not because their parents had been here for 20-30 years. The Broadwater Farm riots occurred after police raided the home of a West Indian woman who suffered a heart attack and died. It could just as easily have been a white family.
The events did not happen because of immigration per se.
The reason for the rise of Ukip is because of uncontrolled immigration from eastern Europe but it is also a protest against the three main parties who follow all the same policies. The EDL because of what they perceive as Muslims getting an easier ride than non-Muslims who make provocative statements.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Gentleman
The points based system was introduced in 2008
Have you ever worked in mainland Europe at all? If you went to many capital cities you would find loads of UK people living, working, hanging out there.
What you do not seem to appreciate is that migration is a two way thing and up to 1997 there was a net migration from the UK in the previous 100 years of 15 million. Now I may be wrong but I really don't think the Blair government let in 15 million people.
Have you ever worked in mainland Europe at all? If you went to many capital cities you would find loads of UK people living, working, hanging out there.
What you do not seem to appreciate is that migration is a two way thing and up to 1997 there was a net migration from the UK in the previous 100 years of 15 million. Now I may be wrong but I really don't think the Blair government let in 15 million people.
Re: Gentleman
No I haven't, but I ve been on the receiving end of endless labour from Africa and then Poland.
I along with a ex manager of mine who brought me over to her new employer as they wanted to set up a a community home for mental/Ld/challenging behaviour clients to work along side another one they had recently opened.
All the staff of both were highly skilled and experienced due to our previous employers.
Anyway...
Roughly 6 months later all the staff started to mysteriously disappear in the other project due to misconduct (funnily enough none of which held up in tribunals and at the time stank to high heaven) etc.. Suddenly any new employee happened to be fresh from Nigeria (just like the managing directors strangely enough) turns out that they also were housing them as well as employing them.
Needless to say our little piece of paradise started to experience these staffing changes as for myself reporting the company to the then national care standards and mysteriously then suffering a sacking a little later.
Anyway a few months later oth projects are staffed entirely by Nigerian labour both housed and employed by my then ex company.
After the polish flood gates opened the company went recruiting for poles even sending out thir HR team to do as they presented less difficulties being shipped over.
Uncontrolled migration is only good for employers who can then pay poor wages who can then exploit the workforce both innpay and through fear of loosing their job as theires plenty out there who'd do your job.
I along with a ex manager of mine who brought me over to her new employer as they wanted to set up a a community home for mental/Ld/challenging behaviour clients to work along side another one they had recently opened.
All the staff of both were highly skilled and experienced due to our previous employers.
Anyway...
Roughly 6 months later all the staff started to mysteriously disappear in the other project due to misconduct (funnily enough none of which held up in tribunals and at the time stank to high heaven) etc.. Suddenly any new employee happened to be fresh from Nigeria (just like the managing directors strangely enough) turns out that they also were housing them as well as employing them.
Needless to say our little piece of paradise started to experience these staffing changes as for myself reporting the company to the then national care standards and mysteriously then suffering a sacking a little later.
Anyway a few months later oth projects are staffed entirely by Nigerian labour both housed and employed by my then ex company.
After the polish flood gates opened the company went recruiting for poles even sending out thir HR team to do as they presented less difficulties being shipped over.
Uncontrolled migration is only good for employers who can then pay poor wages who can then exploit the workforce both innpay and through fear of loosing their job as theires plenty out there who'd do your job.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Gentleman
"Suddenly any new employee happened to be fresh from Nigeria (just like the managing directors strangely enough) turns out that they also were housing them as well as employing them."
Dunno when this was, but my understanding is that even for skilled, non-EU workers there is a cap of about 20,000 per year and you have to be able to show you cannot get the staff from the UK. Obviously there are plenty of illegals around and successive governments have done bugger all to put an end to that.
"Uncontrolled migration is only good for employers who can then pay poor wages who can then exploit the workforce both innpay and through fear of loosing their job as theires plenty out there who'd do your job."
I agree with this to a certain extent but like I said it works both ways. About three quarters of a million British people live in Spain alone. Over a million Brits moved to Australia over a period of 30 years from 1950's to late 70's. 300,000 Brits live in Ireland; over 100,000 in Germany; over 200,000 in France, 700,000 in the USA etc. etc. etc.
No wonder for the entire 20th century, emigration from the UK exceeded migration into the UK.
Dunno when this was, but my understanding is that even for skilled, non-EU workers there is a cap of about 20,000 per year and you have to be able to show you cannot get the staff from the UK. Obviously there are plenty of illegals around and successive governments have done bugger all to put an end to that.
"Uncontrolled migration is only good for employers who can then pay poor wages who can then exploit the workforce both innpay and through fear of loosing their job as theires plenty out there who'd do your job."
I agree with this to a certain extent but like I said it works both ways. About three quarters of a million British people live in Spain alone. Over a million Brits moved to Australia over a period of 30 years from 1950's to late 70's. 300,000 Brits live in Ireland; over 100,000 in Germany; over 200,000 in France, 700,000 in the USA etc. etc. etc.
No wonder for the entire 20th century, emigration from the UK exceeded migration into the UK.
Re: Gentleman
Well for me it was 2000-2003 but as fir your statistics without having to reread everything or find my own (I know what I'm seeing/area living in) the people leaving good old blighty would be interesting to examine are they the ones with cash who can escape and countries welcome or those with those desirable skills for those jobs which britain doesn't have/or enough anymore after all we only have jobs at pound land these days
And what do we get coming into the country? The unskilled amount is far higher than skilled after all if it was the other way round the chattering classes wouldn't be quite as welcome when they find a shed load of poles taking their middle management jobs and driving down their wages which is perfectly acceptable for those poor dum working class plebs after all if they speak out its because their racist.
I remember reading a section of minutes on a website from a Bank of England meeting in 97 where they were extolling that it was better to have loads of short term unemployed rather than long term because it was better in keeping wages low as people were more scared by this than the long term.
Sorry long reply..either way academic as the boat has sailed chokablok with those able to escape while RMS banana boat merrily keeps sailing in.
And what do we get coming into the country? The unskilled amount is far higher than skilled after all if it was the other way round the chattering classes wouldn't be quite as welcome when they find a shed load of poles taking their middle management jobs and driving down their wages which is perfectly acceptable for those poor dum working class plebs after all if they speak out its because their racist.
I remember reading a section of minutes on a website from a Bank of England meeting in 97 where they were extolling that it was better to have loads of short term unemployed rather than long term because it was better in keeping wages low as people were more scared by this than the long term.
Sorry long reply..either way academic as the boat has sailed chokablok with those able to escape while RMS banana boat merrily keeps sailing in.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Gentleman
First I forgot to say that the way you lost your job was really shitty. I have nothing but contempt for people who bring in illegals or twist the rules.
"the people leaving good old blighty would be interesting to examine are they the ones with cash who can escape and countries welcome or those with those desirable skills for those jobs which britain doesn't have/or enough anymore after all we only have jobs at pound land these days"
Well in my experience it is a variety of reasons. I know loads of people who have kids that take off to southern Spain or Ibiza for the entire summer and work in bars or restaurants and then move on to the Canaries in winter etc etc. They prefer the idea of sun, sea and sex and some kind of income rather than living with their parents and getting hassled by the Job Centre on a weekly basis. They are young, want to travel and experience different cultures and as long as they have enough money to scrape a living they are happy.
I think with the boom in holidaying on the Costas, France, Tenerife etc etc. a lot of people went over there to set up businesses - British bars, estate agents, holiday home lettings, outdoor stuff like windsurfing, sailing courses etc etc.
In addition there are a lot of people like me who have been self employed who went overseas to do contracts simply because they were on offer and you have got to be prepared to travel if you want to keep in work as a self employed person.
SO there is a whole lot of different reasons as to why British people go overseas to work, particularly in the EU and without the free movement of labour, none of this would be possible.
In the case of Australia, it was the time of ?10 assisted package Poms when Australia was looking for people to come over.
"the people leaving good old blighty would be interesting to examine are they the ones with cash who can escape and countries welcome or those with those desirable skills for those jobs which britain doesn't have/or enough anymore after all we only have jobs at pound land these days"
Well in my experience it is a variety of reasons. I know loads of people who have kids that take off to southern Spain or Ibiza for the entire summer and work in bars or restaurants and then move on to the Canaries in winter etc etc. They prefer the idea of sun, sea and sex and some kind of income rather than living with their parents and getting hassled by the Job Centre on a weekly basis. They are young, want to travel and experience different cultures and as long as they have enough money to scrape a living they are happy.
I think with the boom in holidaying on the Costas, France, Tenerife etc etc. a lot of people went over there to set up businesses - British bars, estate agents, holiday home lettings, outdoor stuff like windsurfing, sailing courses etc etc.
In addition there are a lot of people like me who have been self employed who went overseas to do contracts simply because they were on offer and you have got to be prepared to travel if you want to keep in work as a self employed person.
SO there is a whole lot of different reasons as to why British people go overseas to work, particularly in the EU and without the free movement of labour, none of this would be possible.
In the case of Australia, it was the time of ?10 assisted package Poms when Australia was looking for people to come over.
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MrAndMsPeach
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Essex Lad
Good riddence i say xxx
Annie
Annie
MrAndMsPeach
MrAndMsPeach wrote:
> Good riddence i say xxx
>
> Annie
I don't think anyone will disagree with you.
> Good riddence i say xxx
>
> Annie
I don't think anyone will disagree with you.