Stones at Glastonbury

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max_tranmere
Posts: 4734
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

David

Post by max_tranmere »

"Yeah, Keith Richards in a BBC documentary, Can Blues people play the whites, or something like that, tells an endearing story of a bunch of spotty, white kids from Dartford who wanted to be Muddy Waters."

The founder and musical force of the band was from Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. Living in Chelsea later on he met two guys who were from Dartford, along with someone else from Penge and someone else from Wembley. He hired them to be in his band. As Bill Wyman very graciously said in his book 'Stone Alone' which I've read several times: "The Rolling Stones were formed and led by Brian Jones. He never got credit for that during his short life and I intend to see he gets it now. Those people who thought it was Mick Jagger's band might like to know that in the 1960's he was nothing more than just the singer." I've read other books about the Stones too, and some are way off the mark. "It all started when two young men met at Dartford train station..." etc. All wrong.
muswell
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: Stones at Glastonbury

Post by muswell »

Thought what the BBC were allowed to show of the set was great, better than the "Shine a light" and O2 gigs, would have loved to see it all, mainly for Mick Taylors reportedly great work on "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", let's hope a complete DVD emerges. I'm regretting not going for tickets to the Hyde Park gigs.

Re the origin of the Stones it was Brian Jones in partnership with Ian Stewart who got the Stones Rolling, Brian came up with the name. They both knew they wanted Bill and Charlie, who would only play if they were paid, Stewart recruited Keith following an audition and Keith then brought in old chum Jagger. How the tail came to wag the dog has never been clearly explained.

max_tranmere
Posts: 4734
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

muswell

Post by max_tranmere »

If you haven't got tickets for one of the Hyde Park gigs (this Saturday and the Saturday after) you could always show up and stand about 50-100 yards behind the rear fencing. You'll most likely be able to see the top halves of the video screens and you'll certainly be able to hear it, so it's the next best thing to being at the gig. Well, you'll be at the gig - just not inside the fencing. I did this for a sold out Hyde Park concert that a certain band played a few years ago and it's almost as good as being inside. The advantage to having a concert happen in a large open space means all others around can watch - unlike in a stadium where (obviously) people outside can't see anything as it's boxed-in by the huge grandstands.

You mention the axis shifting regarding who the main people in the Stones would be ('how the tail came to wag the dog'). This can be put down to their manager Andrew Oldham. He didn't think Ian Stewart looked like a rockstar so it was arranged that he would still perform, just not be in the band photos. He was always referred to as 'the sixth Stone', right up until he died in the mid-80's. Brian Jones becoming more of a junior member and Mick Jagger and Keith Richards becoming the main men in the band was also down to Oldham. Bill Wyman refers to this in his book 'Stone Alone' as "The Unholy Trinity" (Oldham, Jagger and Richards), and how those three became a united force and excluded the others. Oldham re-fashioned the band and made Jones, Wyman, and Charlie Watts more junior members.

Bill Wyman said in an interview not long after his book came out in 1990 that he never liked Andrew Oldham. He also says in his book that the attempts by those three to wear down Brian Jones and to let him know that he wasn't a prominent member of the band anymore were "terrible to watch". He says Brian was treated very badly and that those three were very cruel to him. Some commentators have said Keith Richards felt a lot of guilt over what happened to Brian Jones in later years, especially as it was Keith who poached Anita Pallenberg from him, after Brian and Anita had been a couple for a few years. Keith and Anita continued to be together for about a decade and had two children together.

Keith Richards said years later that one of the reasons they sacked Brian Jones from the band was because he was in such a bad state with drugs and alcohol, and hardly ever turning up to recording sessions, that there was no way they could have considered going on tour with him in 1969. Interesting, isn't it, how when Keith was in the same situation with excess and addiction in the 1970's that HE was never sacked or decided to leave by his own accord.
muswell
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: Stones at Glastonbury

Post by muswell »

Still not clear how Brian went from being the groups leader as per their original contracts, he was in fact paid more than the other members, to being someone the rest of the group could sack.
I've had a few bosses over the years I would like to have sacked if I'd known how.
Still Brian aside I have to say that the early seventies version of the Stones was my favourite. I largely lost interest in them after a few indifferent stadium gigs and 2nd rate albums in the '80's. The Glastonbury show was a big step up from "Shine a light" Which may be something to do with the relative quality of the audiences.

max_tranmere
Posts: 4734
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: Stones at Glastonbury

Post by max_tranmere »

Brain was ganged-up on by Andrew Oldham, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards and basically ousted from his role as band leader. The dynamic in any band, or any street gang for that matter, can change if there is effectively a coup from within. This was further facilitated by the fact Brian was not a strong person and also the fact that, in later years, he was out of it on drugs and drink all the time. He wasn't strong enough to withstand the takeover the others were plotting.

Bill Wyman said in his book that he (Bill), Brian, and Charlie Watts, often suggested things at recording sessions which became the central part of a song. Mick and/or Keith would often decide to have that riff or idea as a central plank for that song, and then credit themselves with having come up with the idea. Bill said that sometimes he would try and confront Mick and Keith, and to get Brian and Charlie to back him up, but at such times (as Bill put it) "Brain and Charlie would vanish". None of them were able to stand up to Mick and Keith. They, along with Andrew Oldham, now ran the band.

As far as people sacking their boss is concerned, think how many coups have taken place across the world, mutinies too, and think how successful many of them were. Think about how Margaret Thatcher, the leader of the Tory party, was ousted from her position by her deputies. These things do happen.

The Stones' next manager was Allen Klein. Mick and Keith wanted him, the others did not. Andrew Oldham said years later how he himself was by then so out of it on drugs and drink that he couldn't stop what was basically a hostile takeover by Klein. Allen Klein got them a very good record deal but some of the band were very unhappy with him being their new manager. By the late-60's Klein was in charge and Andrew Oldham was in a rehab clinic and barely knew what day it was.

Bill said in his book that Klein sensed a lot of bad feeling from Bill to himself, and at one point Klein said to him: "why don't you like me Bill?". Wyman replied: "because I don't trust you Allen". The dislike and zero-trust that Wyman and others had was proven to be correct, the problems caused by Mick and Keith signing up Klein led to major financial difficulties for the band as the years went on, problems which still persist to this day.

The Stones spent a lot of time in the early-70's trying to sort out the mess Klein had got them into, having meetings with him in New York that often lasted days and days without anyone getting any sleep. Most of the Stones' catalogue from the 1960's is owned by the estate of Allen Klein to this day, and from every gig the Rolling Stones play, even now in 2013, they have to pay some money to whoever now owns his estate (presumably one or all of his children, as Allen Klein died a couple of years ago).

Klein also loomed large in the final years of the Beatles. Lennon wanted him as manager, McCartney didn't, and this led to a big rift between the two main men in the band. Years later John Lennon conceded that Paul McCartney had been right all along. Lennon later described Allen Klein as "smelling like an alley cat".

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