Police response time

[Gentleman]

Now it appears the police are having to put the media right concerning their response to the woolich incident.

They are saying they had a unit there within 9 minutes but the response arrives 11 minutes later.

Surely its time to arm the police after all think what would have happened if our friendly local jihadists hadn't waited around to do interviews and have his pictures taken and decided to kill some more kuffars.

Prehaps it would also help general day to day policing.

[Sam Slater]

Sad as this is, our country has one of the lowest murder rates in the world and we've done it without arming our polices officers. That's something we should be proud of, really.

[Gentleman]

But our level of general violence is higher.

[Sam Slater]

But each country varies on what they deem 'violent'. Regardless, that violence isn't leading to murder. We're one the the safest nations in that regard........and violent crime is falling.

And people from both sides of the political divide at least agree on this:

Muesli-munching, hand-wringers:

Fascist, nutjobs:

[frankthring]

I find it fascinating that the police seem a bit slow in reacting to the
Woolwich murder, yet "several" officers, behaving in a "threatening"
manner can warn the 86 year old lady cheesemaker who provides the
Double Gloucester cheese for a the annual cheese-rolling event in the
West Country to stop doing it as she will be held responsible for any
injuries as participants topple over running downhill....
Political Correctness NOW rules Britain ! Perhaps the police were a tad
slow at Woolwich because if they rushed they might be accused of being
hard on muslims ? Yes, I know that's daft, but political correctness is
destroying commonsense in the UK.

[Sam Slater]

What drivel.

[william]

Maybe they got caught up in traffic in London on the way there....

great thing is they shot them to disable them and take them in without too much trouble - also shooting them meant that they were then preoccupied with pain rather than thoughts on more mayhem.

kept them alive as they wanted more information from them more useful to them alive than dead.

[Essex Lad]

Sam Slater wrote:

violent crime > is falling.
>
I'm not sure that is true.

> And people from both sides of the political divide at least
> agree on this:
>
> Muesli-munching, hand-wringers:
>

The Guardian has slightly more caveats in its report:

It's important to bear in mind that today's release focuses on police recorded crimes. These are provided to the Home Office by police authorities and forces, not all of whom collect data with the same precision according to a 2007 audit. This is problematic because it means that a higher number in a given area may indicate an improvement in reporting by police rather than a rise in criminality.

and

What's more, crimes recorded by police are unlikely to represent the total number of crimes that take place.

and

Though police-recorded crimes are down 8%, the number of crimes reported in the survey has fallen by 5%. 8.9 million crimes were reported in the survey in the year ending December 2012, while the police recorded 3.7 million crimes in this period.

The gap is even more noticeable when looking at specific categories of crime. While police record a 10% reduction in bicycle crime, crime survey responses show a 12% increase. This may suggest that for smaller offences, individuals are less likely to report crimes to the police.

Or it may be that people are intimidated to report violent crime knowing that they may have to face their assailant every day

When faced with the statement 'the criminal justice system as a whole is effective' just 44% agreed.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

>
> Fascist, nutjobs:
>

And official statistics show violent crime is now at its lowest level for 30 years.

We know how flexible official statistics can be. The Mail is using the Peace Index, much trumpeted by the BBC. It suggests that we are becoming a more peaceful country.

This was said to show that this country is undergoing a great period of crime reduction. Violence is said to be down (which means that recorded violence is down, a rather different thing). But homicides are also said to be down. Now, surely that?s a hard figure, It must mean what it says. Well, up to a point. These figures included Northern Ireland (generally such figures are only for England and Wales) where the British government?s surrender to terrorism has undoubtedly led to a reduction in homicides.

And, as the official publication on Homicide figures () recently pointed out (p.15): ?Caution is needed when looking at longer-term homicide trend figures, primarily because they are based on the year in which offences are recorded by the police rather than the year in which the incidents took place. For example, the 172 homicides attributed to Dr Harold Shipman as a result of Dame Janet Smith‟s inquiry took place over a long period of time but were all recorded by the police during 2002/03. Also, where several people are killed by the same principal suspect, the number of homicides counted is the total number of persons killed rather than the number of incidents. For example, the victims of the Cumbrian shootings on 2 June 2010 are counted as 12 homicides rather than one incident in the 2010/11 data. Homicides increased steadily up to the early 2000s (the peak in 2002/03 includes the 172 homicides committed by Dr Harold Shipman).?

One is that its graphs of historical crime figures 1911-2012 (page 19) almost all show very steep upward climbs (they can hardly be called curves) until the introduction of ?new crime recording procedures?, whereupon they all begin to show equally steep drops (the exception to this is burglary, which allegedly began to fall steeply before the introduction of the new methods). Another is to be found on pages 22 and 25, where a very interesting fact is shown. Referring to the Health Department?s figures for admissions on violent assaults, the report notes (p.22) that ?Over the last four years the number of admissions has remained flat while police reported number of violent crimes has been decreasing?. A Health Service official notes that "Our figures represent the more serious injuries inflicted by assault that require the patient to be admitted to hospital. They do not include those victims who are treated in A&E and not admitted." (this is to be found here )

Back to the graphs on page 19. Each shows more or less the same thing: burglary, fraud and forgery, violent crime, robbery and sex offences were all shooting upwards nearly vertically. Then, in about 1997, they all dropped almost as steeply as they had been rising.

Here's one alternative explanation. The great drop in all these crimes took place very close to 1997, the year in which the most dishonest and unscrupulous government in modern history took office. Weapons of Mass Subtraction, anybody?

[Sam Slater]

1. If the drops in crime had anything to do with Labour spin, the Daily Mail would have been on in.

2. If the drops in crime had anything to do with Tory spin, the Guardian would have been on it.

3. We look upon the past with rose-tinted spectacles. That's why EVERY generation thought it was better in their day.

4. Perception of crime has risen at a national level but decreased at a local level. 24 hour news coverage and having more access to information has an affect on how we think and feel.

5. We can only log recorded crimes with any certainty. Otherwise you're increasing moving into the realm of hearsay.

6. Even if we take into account surveys and unrecorded crimes, we would have to take into account surveys and unrecorded crimes in the past to have an objective and fair analysis.

7. If you have any evidence that backs up your suspicions that crime is in fact rising, show it.

[frankthring]

Mr Slater, I note after my little comment about the state of Britain and
political correctness now affecting the police, that your reply was I had
written "drivel" ! I referred to a case reported in the Press this week.
I also accepted that my reference to police response time at Woolwich
was "daft" ie jocular ie a joke !
But my tabline was that political correctness is at unprecedented levels
in Britain, getting worse and to the general detriment. Your comments
on PC would be appreciated. Because if you really think it is NOT on the
rise, or getting out of hand, then you really must be a wally ! And that is
not drivel.