boston bombs

[David Johnson]

A very telling, perceptive remark, Mr Essex Lad.

[Buckley]

As an ex-pat Englishman who has lived in the US for 10 years, I can assure you that no American would ever admit to the fact that Boston Fundraising for Noraid constituted terrorism. It's a total blind spot. To raise it today would be in very bad taste, and as Murdoch's junkyard dogs are skewing all comments toward Jihadists - no evidence of course - the usual hue and cry is established.
The whole thing in Boston is as tragic as Warrington, Baltic Exchange and any of the other bombing atrocities, but American psyche seems to insist that no one but they have ever suffered such, now, or in the past.

I just have to accept that despite the anger it provokes in me.

[RoddersUK]

I think that is about right. The average Yanks problem is that they do not know what is happening outside of continental America and therefore think that they are the only ones being attacked.
As for Irish Americans and Noraid, don't get me started.
I don't condone in any way anything that has happened to America in the last 20 years, but, it had to happen. Unfortunate yes, but a lot of anti Muslim feeling has been brought about by themselves and their foreign policy of sticking their noses in where they shouldn't and not understanding why they upset who they have. If the US pulled out of everywhere and wound their necks in the world would be a safer place.

[Robches]

andy at handiwork wrote:

> I would not be surprised, as it is almost 20 years to the day
> (19th April), since the bloody end to the Waco siege, and 18
> years since the Oklahoma bombing which was in itself a twisted
> revenge for the former, if this outrage isn't found to be the
> work of the neo-nazi, ultra right fringe that pollutes American
> politics these days. There are groups, not too far to right of
> the Tea Baggers, sorry, make that Tea Partyers, that refuse to
> accept any law passed federally or by states and are in almost
> open revolt against what they see as the capture of America by
> 'Libruls' lead by the 'foreigner' in the White House.
>
> Only last week' to forestall a court case, neo-nazis
> assassinated a state prosecuter and his wife, just one of many
> acts against authority figures in recent years that can be
> attributed in all likelihood to armed groups in almost
> revolutionary revolt. I hope the federal government pursues
> domestic (white nazi) terrorists with as much vigour as other
> types. Sadly, the shortsighted work of state level GOP
> lawmakers has often made the collation and distribution of info
> by the police/FBI etc on the home grown threat, difficult to do
> as they think it reflects badly on their own support base.

It is very wrong to try and conflate the Tea Party with extremists and/or terrorists, and particularly boring to call them Tea Baggers. How very droll.

As for these so-called neo-nazis, I think you are referring to Aryan biker gangs, more concerned with protecting their drug trafficking operations than anything you could call political. If you think Tea Party types have anything in common with drug running biker gangs you are seriously deluded.

[David Johnson]

"It is very wrong to try and conflate the Tea Party with extremists"

Really?







Makes Nigel Farage sound like Chavez

[Robches]

Yes, really. The Tea Party is a movement for constitutional government, something leftists cannot comprehend. The idea that the state should have limits to its powers makes no sense to the leftist mindset.

[David Johnson]

You haven't grasped the point being made.

"The Tea Party movement is not easily defined, primarily because it comprises hundreds of groups at the grassroots level, of varying size, influence and priorities. It is highly factionalized, with no clear leadership or centralized structure. This is highlighted by the fact that it is not uncommon for different groups affiliating themselves with the movement to adopt disparate stances with respect to a given issue. Nonetheless, the generally consistent recourse to the constitution across the movement with respect to various issues has helped facilitate scholarly examination of the movement."

The links I have provided show that there are individuals with extremist views amongst the hundreds of disparate Tea Party groups.

"The idea that the state should have limits to its powers makes no sense to the leftist mindset"

It's obvious in your posts about the wonderful US gun laws, the idea that the public sector cannot compete with the private sector in efficiency over profit and loss accounts, your seeming support for Tea Party views that you have swallowed this stuff whole.

[David Johnson]

Please define who is "leftist" in your opinion both in the States and the UK and therefore thinks that there should be no limits on state power.

[Robches]

The Tea Party is indeed a disparate movement, and it may contain some people as objectionable as certain trade unionists, but that fact should not serve to blacken the whole movement. The whole thrust of the Tea Party is that the US Constitution delineates the powers of the federal government, which ever since the New Deal has been progressively growing in a way which the Constitution never envisaged. To mock this movement with the lame designation of Tea Baggers, which wasn't even funny the first million times. or to imply that they are somehow in favour of domestic terrorism, is clearly wrong, whether you agree with them or not.

As to leftism, it is the central tenet of socialist belief that state control of the economy is the route to follow. They do not see any role for limitations on government, since they see the actions of government as being benign and for the common good. Leftism has been blunted in Britain since the 1970s, but I am sure you will remember debates as to whther private education and medicine should be banned. Many leftists I am sure still think they should be. They do not feel that the private citizen has the right to spend his own money or make his own decisions, it is better that a wise and impartial public servant should make them for him.

[David Johnson]

Reluctant as I am to reply to someone who despite years of posting on here hasn't yet grasped how threads work, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, yet again!!!

"To mock this movement with the lame designation of Tea Baggers"

You are showing your ignorance of the Tea Party movement here.

The Tea Party movement is based on the Boston Tea Party. Many members refer to themselves as "tea baggers" and indeed there has been much sending of sewn tea bags to Democratic Congressmen as a symbolic act. So you can't blame other people for using the description.

"The Tea Party is indeed a disparate movement, and it may contain some people as objectionable as certain trade unionists"

A poor attempt at a smear. Again you are showing your ignorance here. Racism is endemic in the Tea Party and to refer to these individuals in comparison with trade unionists is vomit inducing ignorance. Here is a few examples for you:

TeaParty.org owner Dale Robertson protested in 2009 with a sign that said "Congress = Slaveowner, Taxpayer = Niggar

While attending the March 2010, health care rally in Washington, D.C., Springboro, Ohio, Tea Party founder Sonny Thomas posted a racist comment on the Springboro Tea Party Twitter page he managed by tweeting "Illegals everywhere today! So many spicks makes me feel like a speck. Grrr. Wheres my gun!?"

Tea Party Express leader Mark Williams referred to Allah as "the terrorists' monkey god",

A former Republican congressman prominent in the Tea Party movement expressed a wish at repealing the constitutional amendment that allowed blacks the vote.

In early July 2010, the North Iowa Tea Party (NITP) posted a billboard showing a photo of Adolf Hitler with the heading "National Socialism", one of Barack Obama with the heading "Democrat Socialism", and one of Vladimir Lenin with the heading "Marxist Socialism", all three marked with the word "change" and the statement "Radical leaders prey on the fearful and naive".

Robches, I could give you endless quotes from fruitcakes that are prominent members of the Tea Party movement.

"As to leftism, it is the central tenet of socialist belief that state control of the economy is the route to follow.They do not see any role for limitations on government, since they see the actions of government as being benign and for the common good. Leftism has been blunted in Britain since the 1970s, but I am sure you will remember debates as to whether private education and medicine should be banned."

Like so many "teabaggers" to use the word many members of the Tea Party like to describe themselves, you live in the past. To describe either Tony Blair or Ed Miliband or indeed anyone prominent in the Labour party that they have a socialist belief in state control of the economy could well result in your being sued!

Get a grip, man!!