Has Copyright owners actions affected your choice?

[bpaw]

Well, I think it sums it up nicely.

Before all this, my non-educated feeling about the Adult industry was, well, not too complimentary. It may have been as a result of the nature of the material, which can be an easy thought for those sitting outside of the industry.

Having spent over two years trying to understand the industry and the various characters involved, I have come to the conclusion that it is far worse than I could possibly imagine.

What makes the Adult industry more different than other media industries? What special case is there for the Adult industry to tackle the true problem of Copyright Infringement by using a system that was used and abandoned by other far bigger organisations?

Simple. There is no stigma being accused of sharing music (Unless it is X-Factor music LOL!). There is no stigma in being accused of sharing games. There is no stigma in sharing box office films. Those people accused of those type of media can tell their family and fight the claim.

So, it is the actions of a small number of producers and a two man band (After Mrs Honey left after the divorce, and after Mr Honey had to sell Goldeneye Mansion) organisation to be selfish and drag the reputation of the industry, which is bad already, further in the mud. A bit of advice is when you?re in a hole, stop digging.

I have to say that if I was an Adult material producer who suffers from my material being downloaded for free and didn?t take up the offer from GEIL because targeting innocent people is wrong, I would be pissed!

My advice, if I was so bold to suggest, is for GEIL to use the talents they have in Telecommunications and media contacts and offer those services to struggling producers. GEIL should say to producers to stop relying on physical DVD sales for income because that is not what the consumer wants. P2P is a hint at what the consumer wants. Video On Demand (VoD) is what the consumer wants, and they pay for it.

@hickster ? Why am I not surprised by what you say about GEIL. I will be looking forward to the news of this, which is a common theme from this organisation.

[bpaw]

What a really bad state the Adult industry is in!

You had AITA, the closest thing to a regulatory body you could get, and it is closing. Any industry needs a regulatory body if it wishes to be taken seriously. Without it, then there is no accountability.

Oh, silly me, I nearly took AITA seriously! Who has been Directors of AITA?

Jason Maskell
Jerry Barnett
Lord Jasper Feversham (ACS:Law fame)
Anna Imogen Arrowsmith

And many others.

On AITA website announcing closure:

?With the limited resources available to AITA, it did not come as a surprise to learn that the majority of current members felt that AITA is underperforming in its provision of key services when considering their relative importance.?

So members of AITA are saying that the very people that they are themselves are underperforming.

I think that it is fair to say that anyone or organisation who may bring the industry in to disrepute by their actions should have their actions looked at by a regulatory body. Without that, what GEIL are doing is groundless.

No individual or organisation can proclaim their actions as valid unless an independent regulatory body has scrutinised it. That is what happened to ACS:Law and Davenport Lyons. The Solicitors Regulatory Authority (SRA) looked at their actions and passed Judgement.

How can anyone take anyone in the Adult industry seriously when there is no valid regulatory body? It seems like there is many voices, but no authority.

As far as I am concerned, there is piracy in the Adult industry and you deserve it. Get the industry in shape and get a legitimate regulatory body and then tackle piracy. Only then can it be right to tackle piracy in a correct and scrutinised manner.

[one eyed jack]

My advice, if I was so bold to suggest, is for GEIL to use the talents they have in Telecommunications and media contacts and offer those services to struggling producers. GEIL should say to producers to stop relying on physical DVD sales for income because that is not what the consumer wants. P2P is a hint at what the consumer wants. Video On Demand (VoD) is what the consumer wants, and they pay for it.



Again it surprises me that for someone claiming to be knowledgeable by observation that those mediums you suggest are the very ones being ripped and file shared aplenty.

have you not heard of site rips? Do you not know how piracy is monetised?

The commercial media industry have FACT. Maybe you should look into how they see this and come back with what you have gleaned

The DVD format has been dead for years but when you give away memberships to over ?100,000 with of productions and someone else sees fit top pay one month and give it away for free you end up being short on sympathy for those you claim to be "innocent"

[one eyed jack]

Bpaw wrote:

As far as I am concerned, there is piracy in the Adult industry and you deserve it. Get the industry in shape and get a legitimate regulatory body and then tackle piracy. Only then can it be right to tackle piracy in a correct and scrutinised manner.



Now you are using AITA closing as a grounds to imply its ok to openly fileshare

The tiger is really showing his true stripes!

You clearly have about as much voice as AITA in your endeavours, otherwise we wouldnt be to and froing 260 posts deep on this topic

The difference is, AITA have achieved some hits over the years, mainly in the areas of sex shop licensing fees but it has been instrumental in change in other areas as well

ETO have featured an article on it if you want to read: www.erotictradeonly.com

I think you'll find GEIL was doing all this without the assistance of AITA as I mentioned earlier so not sure what you are alluding to by bring AITA into it

[one eyed jack]

Do I detect that your ulterior motive is that you find porn and the production of it by those you assume to be bereft of morals as the sole reason why everyone who downloads it is innocent because as you see it the porn industry deserve it?

If so, consider this, how do you consider those accused of downloading it to be innocent?

If they havent downloaded it they simply wouldnt pay up

Pick a house. Any house. Should I therefore turn up and knock on the door accuse them of downloading porn and demand money there and then?

What most likely do you think would happen?

Its a lot easier to pretend youre a victim behind an email like most people who use dating sites are airline pilots. if people pay up, its not because of this flawed monitoring system its because they know they are guilty.

They are not shy wall flowers by some of the responses I've heard

[bpaw]

OEJ: "Now you are using AITA closing as a grounds to imply its ok to openly fileshare

The tiger is really showing his true stripes!"

OEJ: "Do I detect that your ulterior motive is that you find porn and the production of it by those you assume to be bereft of morals as the sole reason why everyone who downloads it is innocent because as you see it the porn industry deserve it?"

OK, cherry pick my words and make an assumption.

Face facts, GEIL are accusing people of sharing Adult material and are playing on that. The Judge made comments on that and you don't see a problem.

Innocent people are targeted and the Judge made comments on that, and you don't see that as true.

I'm saying that Copyright Infringement is wrong, but the "Speculative Invoicing" scam is wrong also. You have said it yourself that everyone in the industry has their own mind and there is no legitimate impartial regulatory body to keep the industry in check. The war on piracy should be tackled by an independant organisation, not a two man set up taking 75%

Some people in the industry are "bereft of morals" as you put it, and it drags other people in the industry in to the gutter along with them. Judges and House Of Lords representatives have denounced this practise as a scam.

If you look at piracy in the Adult industry as you look at STDs, both are an issue and need tackling by everyone to pull together. It's funny that it happens with one issue and not the other.

So in effect I'm not saying that it is right for piracy to happen in the Adult industry, but sometimes you reap what you sow and get what you deserve. Effective legitimate actions can combat an issue like piracy and everyone in the industry benefits and the true pirates are thwarted.

It is only the Adult industry that is still operating this scam and tells you everything.

[bpaw]

OEJ: "Again it surprises me that for someone claiming to be knowledgeable by observation that those mediums you suggest are the very ones being ripped and file shared aplenty."

Yes I do know that but the how many of the current GEIL crop are VoD media and how many are DVD rips? Even BDP material that I have heard in Court cases are DVD rips.

My concentration is on the current GEIL actions.

[one eyed jack]

Whether file or DVD rips its still the same thing

"Face facts, GEIL are accusing people of sharing Adult material and are playing on that. The Judge made comments on that and you don't see a problem"

No i dont see a problem. Sure the judge made comments but he still facilitated it by supervising it by allowing it to happen because it was hard to deny that GEIL had grounds to seek compensation ie Im sure he saw porn as in any other media and had to remain objective on that basis and as for the flawed monitoring system, as I explained earlier what is perfect and without doubt?

Some of the responses Ive heard about were akin to excuses for doing it "I was going through a divorce and was lonely and couldnt afford an escort" (etc)"I thought I was downloading a Bollywood film" "I had no idea it was illegal"- but didnt even deny they downloaded what they were charged with

Ive not heard ONE case yet that has made me think Oh my gosh thats so sad, can you bin that one. In fact, thats so sad lets write him an apology and give him a years subscription instead.

GEIL are representing my interests and as such I will zealously defend those interests as best I can which is why i only speak for myself.

[one eyed jack]

If you look at piracy in the Adult industry as you look at STDs, both are an issue and need tackling by everyone to pull together. It's funny that it happens with one issue and not the other.


Thats the thing. People dont pull together on things like this. All to often Ive seen this business ready to argue, fight and pass the blame than deal with the issue of sexual health but as that costs money when some earn more than others its always going to be a problem.

Depending on what cap you are wearing be it producer, performer, cameraman or editor you will find different groups have different priorities

[Hickster]

@OEJ

"GEIL are representing my interests and as such I will zealously defend those interests as best I can which is why i only speak for myself."

Yes but Jason Maskell who I am sure you know as I said word for word offered me a Video interview in front of an audience, filmed by one of his "Friends", that would be you Terry, unless he composed the sentence EXACTLY the same as you did by sheer cooincidence, is also the Chairman of the AITA and also as you are WELL AWARE the head of Orchid MG who are one of the producers on the GEIL legal action along with yourself.

I might also add that Maskell was also involved with Harmony Films who were filing this kind of action in the States a few years ago.

I have shown you enough evidence that this is a scam, you are without excuse. As far as the Judge allowing the "Norwich Pharmacol" order, well so what? He allowed everyone of the ACS:LAW ones as well, also the Tilly Baily Irvine and the Gallant McMillan ones, it took the outrage of an ACS:LAW insider leaking their emails out of moral outrage of this scheme that prevented others being issued.

It is a great shame that the evidence showing the emails between Becker and Crossley were not shown in Court.

As I have said, this will fail, but not before GEIL have had their pound of flesh. It is interesting and very telling that you state an innocent person would not pay up, well, maybe YOU wouldn't or your friends rolling in cash, but for the average who is told to pay ?700, or go to Court and face possible financial ruin as the Civil Courts only act on a balance of probability, then ?700 seems a fair price against thousands of pounds.

See I really wish this went to a CRIMINAL Court, but of course it cant as Copyright Infringement is not classed as a crime, but if as you believe you have a 100% accurate data monitor, then you would be able to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, but of course you dont have to do that and that is a great shame.

Anyway look at all the others who tried, you and your brigands will soon join them.. It is just a great shame that their is no regulatory body that will punish you harshly for knowingly practicing this scheme. I wish the ICO would get involved but as the people behind this have millions it seems unlikely they will ever be properly punished.