Has Copyright owners actions affected your choice?

[bpaw]

Wouldn?t it be nice if???.

People who say they are innocent of a speeding ticket actually admit they were accused of one infringement. They were not accused of an infringement that caused thousands of other infringements. A speeding ticket is a singular infringement, and is dealt with accordingly by law.

People whose livelihood depends on pornography realise that not everybody shares their point of view.

People whose livelihood depends on pornography realise that people object to the way you conduct their business.

People who go over the speeding limit are caught by evidence that is produced to convict. That evidence can be looked at.

Whinging producers would not come up with the STUPID analogy of thieving a DVD from HMV! FFS! If you thieve a DVD from HMV and are caught, you are on CCTV! That is frigging proof! You are convicted of one infringement.

Wouldn't it be nice if GEIL actually came up with actual evidence to back up their claim that a downloader shared to so many thousand downloaders! I say, like any normal clear minded individual would say, give some f*cking proof!!!!!!!!!!!

[one eyed jack]

Wouldn?t it be nice if???.

People whose livelihood depends on pornography realise that not everybody shares their point of view.

Oh I agree. They dont. Thats why porn makes more than aminstream. the dont agree with us but then some one is buying it or downloading it.

If you dont agree with it why watch it? thats the double standards we understand in porn and why a lot of people are reading this thread but not getting involved and sharing their views because they dont want any attention heaped on them


People whose livelihood depends on pornography realise that people object to the way you conduct their business

Conduct their business? You mean we should be ok with filesharing and downloading? maybe I dont understand the question. Please elaborate

People who go over the speeding limit are caught by evidence that is produced to convict. That evidence can be looked at.

Uh huh. You said it yourself. If the law of the land is overseeing it and advising I dont see the problem if its being done above board with a margin of error with the minitoring being flawed...Speed cameras dont always get everyone and sometimes make errors.


Whinging producers would not come up with the STUPID analogy of thieving a DVD from HMV! FFS! If you thieve a DVD from HMV and are caught, you are on CCTV! That is frigging proof! You are convicted of one infringement.

I use the word theft to describe the act of sharing what is not rightfully yours to share but would you care to suggest another term for it? What would that be?



Wouldn't it be nice if GEIL actually came up with actual evidence to back up their claim that a downloader shared to so many thousand downloaders! I say, like any normal clear minded individual would say, give some f*cking proof!!!!!!!!!!!

To my mind the evidence can be seen on various file sharing stats and forums for all to see. Whether everyone actually downloaded is another matter but Ive seen forums that tube sites that show hits into the millions on occasion and maybe 3 to 5000 at the very least. Thats hwat I used as a reference if everyone of those people gave me 25p I'd be quids in and not give a shit about chasing them up.

I'd have plenty money to pay for shoots, pay for cameras, editing, my car, rent, family but alas it aint so. it just looks like its being paid out of my money for a few subscribers to screw me out of my investment by putting it on line everywhere. Am i supposed to be gratefula dn accept this and do nothing?

It seems to me the people I have heard pay up (and not for porn) haven paid up but not admitted if they did it or not. I assume if they paid it they knew they were guilty and just paid it...Mind you this comment is not based on extensive research, just a couple people I know who know people in Europe it has happened to

[Hickster]

@OEJ "I use the word theft to describe the act of sharing what is not rightfully yours to share but would you care to suggest another term for it? What would that be?"

Well SHARING OBV

If I have a CD, I would lend it to a friend, you wouldn't, as if you did you would be complicit with the same actions that these filesharers, are allegedly doing.

This is not about DOWNLOADIN, Becker has said that, it is about UPLOADING, but as he well knows, the MODEL for all this, that came from DAVENPORT LYONS/ACS:LAW, was designed with legal trickery inbuilt, which is why they were BOTH caned heavily and suspended from practice.

I think Iceland have a solution to this crap.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... y-ban.html

[Hickster]

Well the reason it has not been thrown out is that GEIL REFUSED to perform a TEST CASE, as it was not financially viable for them to do it. Of course, that tells you a lot. If GEIL had won it would nbot have cost them a thing, they knew they would lose, that is why NOONE has taken a contested case to Court in the last 6 years, of this crap

It is far easier to bully money out of people with the THREAT of going to court and being financially ruined than it is to just go to Court and have done with it.

I guess the reason Becker doesn't want to take people to court though is because he is a genuinely nice guy who wants to give people the opportunity to engage with him and come up with a compromise payment.

Of course he would have learnt that from his good friend , Andrew Crossley.

BTW Terry, it must be nice to know that the AITA is fully behind this action,even installing a Chairman who is part of the action..

[one eyed jack]

Well SHARING OBV

Are you off your rocker???? Thats still illegal!!! What have i said earlier about the samll print that comes with these DVDs and inside mags etc...Who gives anyone the right to give away their stuff for millions to download but here you are uypset about "specualtive invoicing"

Sounds like the playing field is levelled if you think this is ok to share. Lets go back to my analogy of the car with the keys left in it.

Its their on the stree. Door unlocked. Does that make it ok for you to go in and drive it away? Just because its there???

If I saw your wallet lying open there and took it, by your explanation, thats not stealing if it was just lying there and I didnt know the owner or the owner was not around.


BTW Terry, it must be nice to know that the AITA is fully behind this action,even installing a Chairman who is part of the action..

Har har! yes. The words Et tu brut come to mind. No wonder why AITA has floundered fast when someone from TVX is in concert giving up the goods on everyone...Oh shit! me and my blabber mouth. By the way I was a member of AITA and I can tell you I for one was not in support of this for the simple fact they are targetting the websites which is pointless while allowing file sharing and tube sites to go unanswered and nor was anyone I know but the person representing TVX in support of it.

It was the quickest way of any association putting a bullet in their own head as far as I'm concerned.

[one eyed jack]

It is far easier to bully money out of people with the THREAT of going to court and being financially ruined than it is to just go to Court and have done with it.

Bully money? Dude Im quick to pop a bully on the nose for just being a bully. i hate bullies and resent the suggestion this is what I am involved with. How many different ways can we say the same thing that the courts are involved with this therefore can we look at this with a bit more civility it deserves.

Bully? I'd prefer a better word than that. This is your other way of saying downloaders are innocent again. You aint leting that go are you?


I guess the reason Becker doesn't want to take people to court though is because he is a genuinely nice guy who wants to give people the opportunity to engage with him and come up with a compromise payment.

I don't think anyone wants to take anyone to court but if you throw it out there and challenge it then its a possibility. If theyre so innocent than how about counter sue? Bring it on!

[bpaw]

@OEJ

Rather than ramble on with short replies to your replies, I?ll say it all in one.

Producers (In general) whinge so much about piracy. There is very good evidence that this is the case, but no perspective is given to what amount. All the analogies are brought out like some sort of book of psalms that was written by a wise old sage. It was one of the original Ten Commandments ?Thou shalt not steal from HMV?.

What starts as what may be a genuine argument is totally unjustified in actions that are taken.

As you know, I believe the monitoring is totally flawed, but let us look at it from what we can all see.

A guy who monitors. A guy who witnesses for the software. A 33% hit rate. TERRIBLE!

An IP address is logged. AT BEST, that is ?proof? of a download. NO EVIDENCE of an upload to anyone.

It IS an IP address, not a person (Let?s hope your mate who you let use your wifi back in 2011 wasn?t downloading via p2p, otherwise you might receive a letter).

It?s all theory. The way p2p works is sharing, fine. But still, NO evidence.

Is this is how Justice works now? By theory? Well, we might as well say all Muslims are terrorists or that black guy driving a Ferrari Mondial has obviously nicked it.

As for speeding cameras. Yes there may have been issues with them but they are a snapshot of one infringement. How would you like it if you (Or your sister, mum, mate etc) received a letter saying you were caught speeding, and thus everyone driving around you was speeding also, so you are guilty of an unknown number of people speeding and pay them ?700.00 or they take you to Court.

You would think it is a scam.

[one eyed jack]

Producers (In general) whinge so much about piracy. There is very good evidence that this is the case, but no perspective is given to what amount.


Yes they do but whats the point of rambling on about figures? Ive heard losses of 50 to 80% literally overnight from January 2012. Some would say it was going down for years but on the whole I dont see many producers complain around here because most have resigned themselve tothe idea that no one cares anyway. I guess that can give you some insight as to why this anti piracy initiative is seen as worthwhile to many who wouldnt bother get involved with this discussion because they are resolute in their decision to do this.

An IP address is logged. AT BEST, that is ?proof? of a download. NO EVIDENCE of an upload to anyone.

We discussed this earlier too. People who use bittorrent for downloading are also unwittingly uploading at the same time. Thats how it works wit p2p seeds and leeches etc

It IS an IP address, not a person (Let?s hope your mate who you let use your wifi back in 2011 wasn?t downloading via p2p, otherwise you might receive a letter).

Again, we are chasing our tails on this. Not likely because most people have password protection to prevent neighbours from hijacking your bandwidth

Is this is how Justice works now? By theory? Well, we might as well say all Muslims are terrorists or that black guy driving a Ferrari Mondial has obviously nicked it.

Dont tell it to me. Tell it to the judge. You seem to be so convinced its wrong but again its overseen by the courts. Talking about it on here isnt doing much to change the issue

As for speeding cameras. Yes there may have been issues with them but they are a snapshot of one infringement. How would you like it if you (Or your sister, mum, mate etc) received a letter saying you were caught speeding, and thus everyone driving around you was speeding also, so you are guilty of an unknown number of people speeding and pay them ?700.00 or they take you to Court.

I have been done for speeding, i have had points in the past. I never challenged the decision so therefore I could be a victim but maybe I place too much trust in the police force to get it right. Youre right, their cameras could be flawed but if I was to persue that I might well find out. Anything made by man can be said to be flawed. One has to consider ratios but I have no idea of those stats so therefore unable to answer your question. Can you clarify figures for this? Just saying its flawed is not good enough. They say 99% of car crashes are down to human error than mechanical

[one eyed jack]

You keep using the word its a scam and you've explained your reasosn for it but yet it is still going on. Dont you thinkif it was such a transparent scam that the courts wouldve thrown it out by now?

Why do you think it hasnt and if your argument about this Torabi and monitoring thing was so spot on why hasnt it been used to attack the courts back with?

Im all for fair play too but until the day comes when the court deems its a scam we just have to see how far this goes.

Like ATVOD though, if it doesnt work out then I will support any next level phase to combat this problem. its way too out of hand now and if anyhting, people are stopping to realise that freeloading is wrong.

I dont expect to make money for nothing and dont expect piracy to go away over night but it would be nice to see the day when it has reduced considerably to not affect peoples incomes as dramatic as it has...Why do you need to know exact figures? if somebody moans that it wasnt as good as it used to be then I would say thats a leitimiate comment in itself. You know it isnt something as piffle oas 5% or 30%...Thise figures people can live with but its when its over 50% when people sit up and start moaning and Ive heard more grumbles about this in Europe than i have in the UK because a lot of "producers" are doing this as a side line rather than full time and if a lot of them are doing content swaps then whatever money they earn from free is really profit anyway

Those "producers" I cannot compare myself with since this is how I actually make my living. You know they dont care about it by the vacuous stares of disinterest because they just got into this to shag a porn star and think whatever loss they made was well worth it. Unfortunately, I dont share the same sentiment

[bpaw]

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bpaw said: Producers (In general) whinge so much about piracy. There is very good evidence that this is the case, but no perspective is given to what amount.

oej said: Yes they do but whats the point of rambling on about figures? Ive heard losses of 50 to 80% literally overnight from January 2012. Some would say it was going down for years but on the whole I dont see many producers complain around here because most have resigned themselve tothe idea that no one cares anyway. I guess that can give you some insight as to why this anti piracy initiative is seen as worthwhile to many who wouldnt bother get involved with this discussion because they are resolute in their decision to do this.
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We have seen others on here who say it?s not worth going this particular route. Although not an exact replica of you, they had the opportunity. They had the history of this to look at, and decided that although it would target infringers, it is not right to target innocent people. That is precisely why I ask for evidence. Evidence of what can be regarded as absolute proof. There is none, just an IP address.

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bpaw said: An IP address is logged. AT BEST, that is ?proof? of a download. NO EVIDENCE of an upload to anyone.

oej said: We discussed this earlier too. People who use bittorrent for downloading are also unwittingly uploading at the same time. Thats how it works wit p2p seeds and leeches etc
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Yes, that is the nature of p2p as I said, but the monitoring has an IP address of a downloader! No IP address is logged for anybody who they upload to. Again theory, no proof. The only so called ?proof? is evidence of one download. One infringement of one download.

There is a familiar theme going on with this, which I attribute it to being a scam.

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bpaw said: It IS an IP address, not a person (Let?s hope your mate who you let use your wifi back in 2011 wasn?t downloading via p2p, otherwise you might receive a letter).

oej said: Again, we are chasing our tails on this. Not likely because most people have password protection to prevent neighbours from hijacking your bandwidth
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I don?t believe you understood this one. If you had a friend round to your home back in 2011 and he asked if it was OK for him to connect to your wifi with his laptop, and unknown to you he was in the middle of a p2p download of ?Fancy An Indian??, you might be getting a letter (Obviously if you were an O2 customer). That is the major problem with people receiving these letters. How the hell can anybody know what happened nearly two years ago?

Another bloody good reason to call this a scam.

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bpaw said: Is this is how Justice works now? By theory? Well, we might as well say all Muslims are terrorists or that black guy driving a Ferrari Mondial has obviously nicked it.

oej said: Dont tell it to me. Tell it to the judge. You seem to be so convinced its wrong but again its overseen by the courts. Talking about it on here isnt doing much to change the issue
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An NPO overseen by the Courts. The only chance that any opposition was brought to Court was a request for Consumer Focus to intervene. The weight of evidence for the application was provided by witness statements from dumb and dumber (Torabi and Vogler). It wasn?t an arena for finding anyone guilty of anything, so the application was allowed (Eventually).

Dumb and dumber were paid for their ?Expert? testimony. Sounds like a scam to me.

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bpaw said: As for speeding cameras. Yes there may have been issues with them but they are a snapshot of one infringement. How would you like it if you (Or your sister, mum, mate etc) received a letter saying you were caught speeding, and thus everyone driving around you was speeding also, so you are guilty of an unknown number of people speeding and pay them ?700.00 or they take you to Court.

oej said: I have been done for speeding, i have had points in the past. I never challenged the decision so therefore I could be a victim but maybe I place too much trust in the police force to get it right. Youre right, their cameras could be flawed but if I was to persue that I might well find out. Anything made by man can be said to be flawed. One has to consider ratios but I have no idea of those stats so therefore unable to answer your question. Can you clarify figures for this? Just saying its flawed is not good enough. They say 99% of car crashes are down to human error than mechanical
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I can?t clarify figures. I was quoting it because you earlier said the possibility of police cameras being flawed. It is understandable that you accepted speeding tickets, but these are a singular offence. As I said, if you were accused / alleged in a claim that you caused an unknown number of other people to go over the speed limit and thus should pay 30 times more the fine, you would be pissed!

You would see it as a scam.


Your second post is why I call it a scam and for what reasons. I think much of what I have said has given that hypothesis some credence.

The real arena to challenge such a scam is in Court when a challenged case is pursued by GEIL. That will not happen because it would show up the scam for all that it is. The really silly part of this is that is what is happening in the US. Contended cases are going to Court and the Judges are dismissing the evidence as woeful. As I mentioned in a previous post, one lawyer faces jail for doing what Becker is doing now.

It?s a scam.