Proud to be British?

[David Johnson]

Had a look at this Youtube vid in which a spokesman for the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party in Greece assaults a female MP. THe Golden Dawn party has a long history of unprovoked attacks on immigrants in Greece and won 7% of the vote in the recent Greek election. Last time I heard, the brave spokesman for the Golden Dawn party had fled into hiding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhyEXgk0Q-8

When I look at the situation in France where Le Pen's National Front got 18% of the vote recently and how the Israeli government has been whipping up hatred against immigrants, I cannot help but compare this with the position of the far right in Britain.

The BNP got all but wiped out at the last election in the UK, despite the country being in the grip of one of the worst slumps anybody can remember.

Given many UK families can still recall either personally or through the stories of relatives, the horrors of fighting the Nazis for 6 years in the Second World War and the destruction caused by the Blitz, maybe it is in the memory banks of much of the electorate that we are not going to give in to the neo-Nazis either politically or as World War II showed, militarily.

When I think about the above and I see the laughably entitled "English Defence" League challenged on the city streets of our country every time they march to spread their hatred, it makes me feel, despite all the problems here

Proud to be English and proud to be British.

[Sam Slater]

Agreed. I've been saying things similar to this for a long time on here.

I think that politics is more polarized in Europe so you're much more likely to get a more left-leaning government or more right-wing government than what you'd ever get here.

We complain about our parties being too alike and centrist but maybe, just maybe we're just a more centrist society that doesn't tolerate extremes in any way.

I remember an old debate from about 10 years ago with Christopher Hitchens talking up Republicanism. The argument from Monarchists is having a Queen stops Parliament getting complete power which is a defence against despotism and dictatorship. We could never have a Putin or Hitler because he'd never have full control of the armed forces. The royals could never claim overall power because they have next to no political power. It's a partnership that's worked and is an argument I'm in agreement with. Anyway, Hitchens countered with a point I think has some real merit: He said that for a dictator to become all-powerful he/she would have to be taken seriously. He said a Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, Saddam or Kim Jong-il type leader of the UK would be laughed at in the street up and down the whole British Isles.

[Jonone]

Is it an argument with people like Hitler that the consequences of laughing at him were pretty dire and people choose quiescence but stop short of buying into the personality and his grim vision ?

I take Hitchens' general point though.

[davey]

so what do you make of this.Where are all the immigrants who consider themselves so proud to be British.There are over a million Africans in london where the fuck are they.Is it just white people who are loyal to the Queen.Where is the wonderful multicultural society we keep geting told is so good for us?

[Sam Slater]

Give it a rest ffs.

[Sam Slater]

The consequences were only dire after he got a good deal of power. I think the point was that extreme characters like him wouldn't be taken seriously enough to achieve such power in the first place.

[frankthring]

David - far right parties are usually only successful in times of crisis,
especially economic crisis. Hence the Nazi rise to power in post-war Germany
and the current strength of the far right in Greece.
In France, Jean Le Pen - who I once met at a small hotel in Prague where I
was shooting porn (he had an awful wife, used to wander around all day
in old carpet slippers, most odd), tried to debate with him but his english
was limited and my schoolboy french not good enough for debate - managed
to build up a party because of the vast number of Moslem immigrants from
French North Africa who have their own ghettos in most towns and cities....
Britain has generally been more successful at integration of foreigners. Not
everywhere but certainly with more success than France. And while bgafd
folk love to moan and moan about the UK, the country is basically strong
economically. Brits never realise how bloody well off they all are compared
to most of the world.
Should that all fall apart you will see the far right emerge from beneath the
floorboards. Trust me.

[David Johnson]

"far right parties are usually only successful in times of crisis,
especially economic crisis."

Well, this is the worst economic slump the UK has had since the 1930's depression.

"managed to build up a party because of the vast number of Moslem immigrants from French North Africa who have their own ghettos in most towns and cities...."

The Muslim population of the UK is about 4.5% of the total; in France it is about 5.5%. So not much difference there.

"Britain has generally been more successful at integration of foreigners. Not
everywhere but certainly with more success than France."

There are many on this forum that would disagree with you there.

"And while bgafd folk love to moan and moan about the UK, the country is basically strong economically. Brits never realise how bloody well off they all are compared to most of the world."

Agree entirely in the sense of the comparison with the rest of the world. But we have done no better than France. In fact many would argue that we have done worse because our banking sector was far far bigger than France's

So if the Muslim percentage is similar, the UK economy, if anything has had a worse time than France's of late, how do you account for the huge difference in the level of support for France's National Front and the UK's BNP who are probably the most similar right wing parties?

[jimslip]

You are absolutely correct Frank. The far right in the UK just needs a Blair, New Labour style makeover and they could easily find a foot hold, when for example the Euro goes down the toilet and there is mass immigration from Europeans seeking work in the UK. The Far Right is just simmering, it just needs the right spark to set it alight.

Possible "Blair style" makeover hints for the BNP:

1/ Find an articulate, charismatic leader
2/ Get rid of the shaved heads and bomber jackets.
3/ Stop talking about race issues, we are multi cultural now, get used to it and it frightens the voters.
4/ Isolate the City Financiers and Bankers as our enemies.
5/ Isolate, benefit cheats, wealthy tax avoiders and public service fat-cats.
6/ Vow to crush (4) & (5) with an iron fist!
6/ Re-distribute wealth clawed from (4) & (5) to working men and women and their families.
5/ No more "Seig Heils!" (It frightens the voters)

In 3-5 years you'd have some seats in Parliament. Oh yes and keep the word, "British" out of your party name. After all, did Adolf call his party, the "German National Party?" No he didn't. So what about something like, "The Rational Socialist Party?".....it's got a sort of ring to it, don't you agree?!wink!

[David Johnson]

You will have to get rid of the specs first, James.

Not so much Mussolini......

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... solini.jpg[/img]


more Charles Hawtrey

[img]http://www.starstills.com/product_image ... _82314.jpg[/img]