Was David Starkey right ?

[frankthring]

I am sure readers of this site have noticed the furore in the media over
the non-PC comments of Professor David Starkey who argued on TV that
black (specifically Jamaican) culture now dominated youth gangs in Britain
and turned young whites into blacks ! In the rumpus it seems that either
a) Starkey is right.... or b) he is totally wrong to talk like this c) he did
not go far enough d) gang culture imitates the USA/Caribbean because
the elite/media in Britain have mocked and destroyed classic working
class culture in the UK ?
I would be interested to read your comments.

[jimslip]

I think white kids have merely adopted the, "Gangsta speak" amd style of the black gangs. They haven't actually been turned, from White to Black, Mr Thring! For a start white kids have a completely different cultural background to black kids. It's a fashion thing. Not every kid who talks "gangsta" and wears a hoody, is gonna "Pop ya" ! Around where I live which is full of public schools and young toffs, you can here them speak in the manner of "Black yoof", much to the annoyance of their parents!

It's quite easy to do, just talk from the back of your throat, a bit like a ventriloquist and you too will be talking "Gangsta"/ "Yoof"in no time.

Prof Starkey is a silly old duffer talking shite, what's his point? If you are a white kid, you want to become black? What then? You suddenly have an overwealming need to riot and loot? Also, Cameron is talking shite blaming the riots on "Gangs" it wasn't gangs it was opportunists individuals spontaneously forming themselves into "Gangs" to rob and burn. To be honest its far more scary.

"the elite/media in Britain have mocked and destroyed classic working
class culture in the UK ?"

I think you'll find "Working class culture" has moved on a little since you were last here Frank!!wink!

[David Johnson]

Mr Slip appears to be white. Is Mr Slip seen in a black hoodie trying to smash the window of Foot Locker? I suspect not.

"The whites have become black". Right, of course there is only one black culture and only one white culture, isn't there? And everyone fits into those stereotypes.

David Starkey is an ignorant rent-a-gob who gets trundled out on programmes like Question Time and Newsnight when said programmes are looking fir someone with a trite, shallow, stupid theory to cause a bit of aggro in the discussion. It's Jeremy Kyle for the so-called intelligent.

Personally I blame lack of discipline, poor parenting and educashon for Starkey's ignorance. A lengthy period of community service might help.

Cheers
D

[number 6]

No he wasnt right,if you agree with his barmy views you are just plain ignorant or out and out racist.

[frankthring]

Jim - my reference to "the elite/media" having destroyed working class
culture is not my own view. It is the view of a leader writer in today`s
Telegraph. I have not got any particularly defined view of the riots,
though I would say that your comment that young toffs and public school
kids are adopting "gangsta speak" was exactly what Starkey was saying.
He was not saying the kids want to be black, he was saying black ghetto/
cultural-gangspeak was now what lots of white kids are trying to imitate.
This sounds (to me) more or less what you are saying. My problem with
jimslip-speak is that you use such wide generalisations (and
exaggerations often for comedy or effect) that I am never too sure exactly
what you are saying......
But, if you are right, about youngsters from all classes just coming
together as a mob to loot and steal, then it really is scary !

[beutelwolf]

I think what Starkey pointed out is at best a small contributing factor to the riots. Starkey overestimates the role of cultural identity because he himself belongs to a social group for which cultural identity is all-important.

What we had was more a case of abandonment of culture than one of adopting a false one. To some extent one can blame multi-culturalism here: once all sorts of cultures are valued equally highly they are also valued equally lowly, and in the end not valued at all. It's a bit like supporting two teams equally in a football match, which easily leads to a loss of interest.

There certainly was a racial element to the riot, and that was not an accident. When social disenfranchisement strongly correlates with membership to a certain ethnic or religious group then that increases the Gewaltbereitschaft (to use a German word where this is no good English one) of that group. This was not any different with the riots in Paris or the continuing violence in Bagdad, etc.

[wayne]

I think is right although voiced poorly, but lets be honest however it was put you would have intrseted groups wanting to hang him out to dry.

If we look at what is presented as "black yoof culture" you see nothing more than the wet dreams of boys (really tretarded ones) made real e.g.. running around playing with guns, boasting about being hard or having something others dont have, getting something for nothing, dont want to be the odd one out and the childs inability to think/compreherend understand beyond their own desires.

Now marry that with cynical companies who tap inot this (lets be honest its shooting fish in a barrel) thats how you shift all that sportswear, records and associated rubbish and these morons will pay as their not to bright. This makes money for the companies and so others join the feast and they make money as well, this of course makes all the behaviours accepted as it becomes part of the marketplace/society.

[Sam Slater]

Starky ought to stick to talking about Henry VIII, who always wore a hat to hide his dreads.