A Clockwork Orange...

[Dave Wells]

I think you'll find 'Alex descends into hell for a bottle of milk' is just a subtitle of a different mix of the Fly song.

[jimslip]

Where Alex has dinner with his victim. I love the look of total rage in the old man's face!

[max_tranmere]

Having done a bit more research, I've discovered that U2 penned the soundtrack to a stage version of 'A Clockwork Orange' that year, and "Alex descends into hell for a bottle of milk" was one of the tracks. It may have been a re-working of The Fly I'm not sure, but it appeared in the musical.

[muswell]

The "Clockwork Orange "case was neither the only nor the major reason for the end of the Scala.
The actual judgement in the case was to award Warner Brothers ?1500.00 in costs a fraction of their actual expenses and easily within the Scala's reach given their defense fund.

[thealtruist]

Just a couple of points - The language in "A Clockwork Orange" is called "Nadsat". It's a cross between Cockney rhyming slang and Russian. David, the Russian word for girl is "devotchka" not "babouchka". And it's "devotchka" that Malcolm McDowell uses in the film. Secondly "Soldier Blue" was never banned just heavily cut. "Straw Dogs" was only banned on video.

Sorry. I absolutely adore this film and being an amateur film historian I pontificate about it.

[RetroBlueFilms]

Andrew Loog Oldham held the film rights to the novel at one time and hoped to film it with the Rolling Stones who he managed . He wrote the liner notes of the first three or four Stones LP's in Nadsat style.

[Bishop Beesley]

Ok, neither Straw Dogs or Soldier Blue were banned, at least in the cinema. Both had some problems with video and dvd releases, but are now both available fully uncut, as far as i'm aware.

I saw both of these films (along with the likes of The Exorcist/C.O/The Devils) when they came out in the early 70's, despite only being about 14 at the time (I looked older) and have to say out of all of them, the most unpleasant (to me) and the one i've never watched again was The Devils.

Soldier Blue was justifiably violent in unflinchingly portraying a notorious real-life massacre of native Americans by the US cavalry. It was trimmed for it's video and initial dvd releases, particularly a scene of a soldier cutting off a squaw's breast.

Straw Dog's violence was never cut, it run into problems with the rape scene.

As for Clockwork Orange, well i think it's a remarkable film, and one of Kubrick's best. The violence is MEANT do be disturbing and hard to watch. Because Alex is the "hero" and crucially narrator of the story, it's asking us the question how much do we sympathise or "root" for someone who is essentially a monster. For instance we see that compared to his droogs, Alex may be a thug, but he is intelligent and appreciates great music, he's almost likeable when compared to almost everyone else in the movie. Are we complicit with the violence we're watching?

And of course the big question is....what's worse, a person displaying their natural violent tendencies or a brain-washed law-abider with no choice?

Oh and Thamesmead might not be the prettiest of places, but i lived there for 6 years in a tower block that is visible from the lake scene in CO and had not one hint of trouble in all that time....well except for the drunken Irishmen who'd give us a bit of a serenade while trying to get his key in his door!

[max_tranmere]

Bishop Beesley: very interesting. I have not seen those other films, I am not a huge fan of horror/violence, I prefer it when it is implied rather than graphically shown. That often hits home more profoundly, a good example of that is the Silence Of The Lambs. I only know of Thamesmead what others have said of it, I knew someone from Erith and someone else from Bexleyheath, and they both said it was to be avoided - even in the daytime!

[thealtruist]

Bishop Beesley - "Soldier Blue" is still cut on DVD but only for animal cruelty. I find it strange that you found "The Devils" difficult to watch. Why is that?

[Bishop Beesley]

I know in retrospect that The Devils was making a point about religious intolerance, but as a 14 year old boy sitting watching in an almost empty cinema i found it deeply disturbing in it's imagery and general cruelty. Whether or not i would still have the same reaction to seeing it now i don't intend to find out.

I know it's an important piece of film-making, it's just not for me.

Didn't know about the animal stuff in Soldier Blue, but the rules on what you can and can't do with animals in films has been tightened considerably since the 70's so that doesn't surprise me. Things like intentionally tripping horses is no longer allowed.

A bit of trivia for you....the only way to get an English language completely uncut version of Conan The Barbarian is to get the Australian version. Although they have the same rules about animals they don't impose those rules retrospectively.

As for Thamesmead, i feel no need to beat a drum for the place, but honestly, given the choice i'd live there over Erith or Bexleyheath any day of the week! lol