Serious post: dealing with anxiety, fear and panic

[max_tranmere]

sam, when I mentioned that I hoped these two scumbags who I used to know died in a plane crash it is because they are both evil c**ts who get extreme pleausre out of bullying people, ruining peoples lives, hurting people, aswell as ripping of the people they work for, lying, deceiving and so on. All of us cheer at the end of a film when the bad guy gets it, so I am not saying something perculiar when I say that it would be very nice if two people, who are walking and talking pieces of shit, got theirs. If it was only be a fraction of a millemetre the entire world would be a far far better place if these two evil bastards DID die in a place crash!!

[Sam Slater]

I'm not sure of the circumstances they put you under, Max, but it would have to be horrific if them just being alive haunts you so much. And YES, wishing people to die for bullying you IS peculiar. Most people understand that films and stories are there for entertainment purposes only, and the scripts are specifically designed to play with our emotions. Not many people really think Rambo has hidden moral messages we should adhere to in real life so if you think hollywood blockbusters excuse your fantasies then this could be more scary than I thought. Sorry.

I'm not condemning bullying (unfortunately I have to go out of my way and state this since many round here are prone conjecturing and the like ? and even after stating stuff they manage to read only what they want) but in my world bullies should be sacked, not wished dead. Ok, I'd even give you the pleasure of saying you wished they were dead during a bout of anger, when thinking about how they've treated you, but to automatically think of that wish everytime you here of a plane crash on the news is just worrying. How would you link plane crashes and death to people who've bullied you? There is not an obvious link unless those bullies were pilots and trolly dollies. You've made a link in your own head though and it's the processes behind that linking that worries me. Go talk to someone about these 'fantasies', I implore you.

You titled your post 'serious' and I've advised you in a professional, respectful way. You've chosen to ignore that and go for the easier option of buying books that will just leave you out of pocket and if your lucky a little ego boost. This inclines me to suspect that you're not too fussed about getting better and just want to talk about yourself on here for some reason (you like to moan; you want sympathy, etc). Still no one has explained how my 'serious' advice has been rebuffed with much more vigour than Keith's divvy reply.

[max_tranmere]

Sam, I dont link plane crashes with vengance on people who have treated me badly in a direct sense, what I meant was that if people have died then I always hope one or both of these people are amongst them. I would like these evil bastards dead, yes. I wont ever harm anyone, even people who have badly messed me up, but if one of them was to come to a sorry end I would cheer because of what they've done to me. If I could view this as an isolated period of time from my past then I would but the fact it has lingered and affects me to this day, means it is still current - not past - and the effects of it are still there in many other areas of my life too. This thread was originally about fear, anxiety and panic, and the biggest issue there was the fear bit. Luckily I have not had that happen in the last few days but am often down (i.e. pissed off) because of all this. I worry that if I get more and more depressed about it I may get the fear, but I hope not.

[max_tranmere]

jr, cheers for the support. I am aware I am not alone. What I hate is that I cant control my moods and thoughts. Winston Churchill used to call it 'black dog' when it would come on. You hope to have a pleasant evening, you are looking forward to it, then it starts. You feel glum for hours, and in your mind every minute is some scumbag from years ago. Someone you dont wanna think about for one second, let alone hours.

[Sam Slater]

You ARE linking plane crashes to those two people that have treated you bad, and as I've already said, that's peculiar. There's being angry at what they've done and then there's hopes popping into your head when you hear of tragedies on the news. The very reason you see nothing wrong in this is more worrying than the actual wishes you admit to. Please go tell your GP about it.

Wishing these two people die in an accident, repeatedly, and actually killing them yourself isn't the same of course, but both start with wishing them dead and it's a path you shouldn't really flirt with I'm afraid. I'm not implying you're a potential killer, what I'm saying is such fantasies aren't as normal as you seem to think and just thinking such things means that these two individuals you are talking about are actually still in control of you. It was in my first reply that I mentioned taking control if you look back and so it looks like I was on to something.

If you want to get better then you're going to have to start by accepting these guys(?) were just pricks with nothing better to do and move on. If you look upon them as flawed individuals then you might realise that them bullying you was nothing personal, it was just their way of making them feel better about themselves. Making a hobby of criticising, undermining and bullying someone amongst a group is really about elevating one's self above the person they're ripping into. Taking delight in highlighting a person's flaws is a round about way of showing you are superior. You just happened to be the victim by chance and no doubt they'd love it if they knew what they did still affects your life.

My advice then would be to forgive them and accept who they are: dickheads. Fantasising about them dying and spending your time getting worked up over minor celebs, etc just turns you into the dickhead they were. You become the type of person you despise and if you go too far you'll wake up one day realising this and begin to hate yourself just as much as you hate them. That's not good for someone who wants to get on with his life is it?

If you can forgive and accept then surely you'd be a happier person without revenge and spite consuming you. If you'll forgive me being an amateur psychologist for a minute then I'd hazard a guess that because vengeance and spite are at the forefront of your mind quite often, and because you know you can never get revenge without breaking the law, it makes you angry that you're not in control of the situation. Not being in control obviously leads to feelings of vulnerability and thus, anxiety. Does that make sense to you Max?

If you accept my line of reasoning here then you'll have worked out that gaining control of your emotions and thoughts is the first step to sorting out your panic attacks, which might help you live a less stressful life, which will no doubt help with any depression you may have.

If you want to take control of yourself then you're going to always have to come to terms with what you can't control, and that's the past and those two guys' behaviour. If you can forgive them then you'll have no wish to control them, or time itself.

It sounds like common sense to me and I've not even read any quackish books from Waterstones.

Again, though, I'd still recommend talking to your GP first.

[max_tranmere]

Sam, thanks for that, some interesting points there. I agree that if one can forgive then the whole issue either becomes much smaller or disappears but it is hard to actually do that. Talk is cheap and I could easily just say "I forgive" but deep inside you still have the same feelings so all you've actually done is forgiven in the forefront of your mind, and not deep down, even though you want to forgive deep down, but somehow you can't.

The only thing you can do is to say, and you mean it as strongly and as honestly as you can, "I forgive", but you still find yourself being angry with the people and the issues, and they are all still in your mind, so you haven't forgiven as such, you've just told yourself you have. I would love to forgive deep down, then I wouldn't be angry and dominated by these two pieces of shit I used to know, but somehow that is harder.

I know someone who had teribble problems with his dad growing up, his dad used to beat him up (with a closed-fist) and it has messed him up ever since. He has a drink problem and many times he has said to me "I've forgiven my father" but I can tell he hasn't, and he hasn't because he can't control that bit of him. He wants to and you can tell he would love to control that bit of him inside which would profoundly forgive and would, as a result, eject those thoughts and memories from inside him. I can see so much of his issue as being similar to mine.

You would love to control that bit deep inside you that keeps the memories and the feelings alive and current, and you want to deep down forgive, but all you have control of is the fore-front of your mind and when you say "I forgive" and mean it as much as you can it still makes little difference. Next time I'll see this friend of mine he'll be angry and going on about how his father was "the biggest c**t that ever lived!" and I can see he hasn't forgiven, even though (like me) he wants to.

One sad thing he told me about was this office party he was at once and (inevitably) he got quite pissed. He said he was sitting at this table and then just started ranting about his dad and all the things his dad used to do to him. He said it was like he was watching himself from the outside, it wasnt 'him' doing it, he couldn't control it, he just started ranting and everyone was starring at him and he couldn't stop it.

It's a funny thing, having the legacy of a bad period in your life still in your mind. You so want to get rid of it, you forgive the individuals as much as you can and want to forgive them totally and move on, but it is all still regularly there and still entering your head all the time. It's so weird that we have no control of that 'inner me' which keeps these things current and makes you feel down and fills your mind with all this stuff. Maybe hypnosis would help...

[silkflame]

I sympathise M/T: bullying in workplaces is always a bastard, but you can always cut your losses and leave.

I've got no easy advice on dealing with stress/anxiety I'm afraid.
It's a good idea to try to figure out what makes you feel that way, and maybe you can avoid it or deal with it.

In a general kind of way, voluntary work might be helpful: you can do something useful that you care about and there's no pressure. Generosity & kindness usually leave you feeling a lot better than bitterness and resentment. Harder work though.

And sometimes you just have to gut it out. Stress isn't always a bad thing, as long as you deal with it carefully.

[Grendel1]

I know what you mean about control Max, I've had my first session with a psychologist (nothing to be embarrassed about), and in her words, it's all about ME regaining control. Small steps, but got some positive stuff out of it, so it's a start.
It's up to you what path you take, but I would thoroughly recommend seeing GP, and get referred. Some things they do won't work, some may... it's worth a try.
I'll be honest, reading books can make uncomfortable reading (I've been lent a couple), and unless you're strong enough to take it (which I wasn't), it can make things worse.
I'll keep an eye out on how you're doing, and if I learn anything on my path to recovery I'll let you know
Good luck!

[max_tranmere]

Grendall, thanks for that. I presently see a counsellor and it helps to an extent. He calls what I have 'episodes' as I mentioned earlier, where as people who have clinical depression (not me) are in a much worse situation and I feel very sorry for them. They have this shit every minute of every day, it runs through them like a stick of Brighton Rock, and they can't shake it. At least with me it comes and goes. 'Fleeting' was a word my counsellor used and I think it is accurate. Would be nice to exorcise ones demons but that is easier said than done.

[Grendel1]

Hi Max,
Counselling didn't help for me, got no constructive help or advice, just wanted me to talk. I know I've only done one session, but it's looking promising with psychologist. I got more advice in 40 mins than I did with hours of counselling.

I know our situations are different, but give it a thought Ask your counsellor or Gp about it, it won't hurt to try. If it doesn't work, then there's nothing lost... But it may...

Just my opinion