Euro 2008

[beutelwolf]

Flat_Eric wrote:

> I still say that their record over the years flatters them
> greatly and that they're the luckiest team of all time. I mean
> - four tournament final appearances on the back of penalty
> shootouts ('82 / '86 / '90 / '96) and one blatant match fix
> that FIFA lacked the balls to do anything about ('82).

Well, in '86 the penaly shootout was in the quarterfinals, and within altogether 13 reached finals by Germany it's not too surprising that 4 had a penalty shoot-out somewhere on its way.

In 1982 that wasn't a match fix - it didn't need to be; in the last game Germany needed to win, Austria needed to avoid a 3-goal defeat, and once Germany was 1-0 up both teams stopped playing because both achieved their goal. That was ungentlemanly conduct and bored the pants of the spectators, but it was not a fix.

> But the worst thing about it is their sheer arrogance (which
> Martin O'Neil touched on last night), epitomised in
> BILD-Zeitung at the start of the tournament, with a
> photoshopped picture of Ballack on the front page holding the
> trophy in his arms and the headline (translated): "To the
> Opposition - This is ours. You can look, but don't touch. This
> is for us".

Well, the Bild-Zeitung is often a source for national embarrassment, after all it's a tabloid.

That particular form of arrogance though is a down to differences between the UK and Germany in judging where confidence ends and arrogance begins. Germany was regarded as pre-tournament favourites (e.g. by the bookies), and that headline simply reflected that - in Germany that would therefore not raise an eyebrow. Showing humility in that situation would be regarded as a defeatist attitude.

It's not dissimilar to the confidence displayed by Michael Schumacher a few years ago, which also lead to him being described as arrogant: well, he was - by British standards, but not by German standards. That does not mean that people get away with everything in Germany, e.g. Uli Hoeness (general manager of Bayern Munich; the wanker who missed that penalty in the Euro 1976 final) is widely regarded as a piece of arrogant vomit. The fine difference is that Hoeness goes beyond showing confidence by disregarding opponents as unimportant, along the lines of "you can count your lucky stars that you are allowed to play (&lose) against us".

[Bob Singleton]

At least the German "arrogance" is based on past results... the English (and specifically the tabloid media) are just as arrogant without anything more than 1966 to cling on to!

Was it the Mirror in '96 that had (Photoshopped) pictures of some of the England players wearing WWII army helmets and straplines like "Two World Wars and One World Cup"? What's so different between that and Bild-Zeitung's picture of Ballack???

It is true that this German side is fairly average... only Ballack and Frings are truly world class players... but self belief always helps, and the Germans have that in spades.

[chatterji]

Turkey played brilliantly given their limitations. But they made the Germans look average because the Germans are average! They are unbelievably jammy to be in the final, having only faced one truly good team (Portugal). Ballack and Schweinsteiger are their best players, the rest are average to poor.

Their central defenders are simply shite. I hope, passionately, that Spain get past Russia and really hammer the Germans good and proper. Torres and Villa will rip their back line to shreds.

If the Germans go on to win it, it will be a travesty. I was happy for the Greeks last time, but the Germans have tons of silverware and this side of theirs is the worst I can remember. I also find their ponce of a coach in his manicured white shirt, irritating for some reason. Give me a nutter like Clough of Fateh every time.

[Flat_Eric]

chatterji wrote:

>>


I think their 2002 World Cup side was marginally worse.

I too would love to see the Germans taken apart by Spain (or even Russia).

But sadly I foresee a scenario of Spain (or Russia) thrashing the Germans 2-2 - and the Germans winning on penalties.

- Eric

[dimi]

a bit disapointed with the russians tonight but the better team won. i think arshavin got a fair bit of flack off david pleat tonight but even top players have an off day. the irony was certainly not lost on me when the spainish sung there national anthem infront of a anti racism banner.

[crofter]

To be honest Russia played pretty poor from the first minute and never looked like they BELIEVED they could beat Spain - that first thrashing seemed to have a BIG effect on this game. On that showing I don't think Arshavin will be getting his dream big money move to Barcelona either.

Certainly think you are all being a bit unfair on the Germans though as I think they have only played one bad game (against Croatia) but that is how the Germans play only just do enough - they will probably play ten times better against Spain in the final and hopefully it will be a pretty entertaining game.

[chatterji]

That little bloke Fabregas was rather good last night. Much as this Spurs' fan hates to admit it he's got to be one of the biggest talents in the world... and he's only about 12.

Thought Spain played a blinder - patient and lethal. Wore the Russians down and then put them to the sword. It demonstrated where the Dutch went wrong: they were simply too impatient.

I'm putting my head on the block here but I think Spain'll score at least two against the Germans on Sunday. Desperate for them to win the tournament. It will be a tragedy if the flukey, mediocre German side, wing it.

Viva Espagne!

[Mike_CFC]

Well done to Spain.Should be a cracker of a final on Sunday.

[Bob Singleton]

I really don't know what to do with my Fantasy Euro 2008 team... do I pick Spaniards on the basis that all things being equal they'll blow away a very average German side with a ponderous defence, or do I pick Germans on the basis that of all the jammy bastards, the Germans are the jammiest of the lot and, having been thoroughly outplayed for 88 minutes, will nick a flukey goal and go on to lift the trophy?

[Mike_CFC]

I'm in the same boat as you Bob.Can't believe i've slipped to 4th place,so i'm guessing you are going with a German team,so i'll have to go with Spanish team,but can't decide whether to keep Ballack or remove him.

The perils of football management,eh?.