Fact: Rooney stood on the guy's balls.
Fact: He got sent off (whatever you think of Ronaldo or the ref's contribution).
Fact: England looked the better side when playing with ten men.
Fact: Blaming a cheating ladyboy or a ref for departing the World Cup is to ignore the real reason----your team didn't perform.
Blame stars who failed to perform, or coaching staff who were unable to formulate a tactical strategy to cope with a below-par Portuguese team. The Rooney business was a sideshow to the whole thing. Eriksson doesn't know how to pick a winning team (and I mean team as in people playing together; not just some individuals shining when they feel like it).
And before anyone accuses this Scot of gloating, or sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, consider this: we would give anything for even one player with the skill of Gerrard or Lampard or Rooney. We don't have them. On the few occasions when we play well---and the same can be said of our Welsh cousins---it's because everyone is working together.
Blaming Ronaldo or the ref will just lead to more of the same in future. England needs a team spirit, a team mentality. When a goalkeeper of Paul Robinson's undoubted ability is flapping about, looking nervous and barely able to cope with straightforward crosses, something is wrong. Terry and Ferdinand were able to work well together----why not the rest of the team?
You need a manager who will pick the right players for "the team"----not just the most gifted.
Rooney stamped on that guy's nuts !
DON'T BE SIDELINED
Pervert
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Re: Rooney stamped on that guy's nuts !
Rumour on the Net that C. Ronaldo off to Chelsea. Probably complete bollocks though- but you heard it here first.
Re: DON'T BE SIDELINED
I do totally agree with you Caractacus but I also agree with Sam....I stil don't see it as a deliberate stamp, I thnk Rooneys leg was trapped behind the other guys leg/calf and he was trying to shake it free. Stamping implies some kind of forceful motion, of which there was none. No jerking or increased movement of the leg.
Either way - it IS a sideline and England finally had to face our biggest weakness - RESTING ON OUR FUCKING LAURELS (sic?)....thats what we do best/worst. It takes losing a man to evoke the kind of motivation in English people because we take it easy when things are going relatively smoothly, the its an "oh shit" moment when things need stepping up a gear.
The whole tournament was a bit of a mess for your reason - sven's decisions. But we did see some moments that confirm out potential to be a trully excellent team....flashes of inspiration if you will.
Ashley Coles run and diving tackle to tip the ball onto the crossbar against Ecuador ( ? ) was possibly one of the best defensive interceptions you're ever likely to see (cue: bobby moore references) and probably kept us in that game to be honest....full credit for moments of greatness like that. (shame it was the equally solid john terry's mistake that caused it lol)
Either way - it IS a sideline and England finally had to face our biggest weakness - RESTING ON OUR FUCKING LAURELS (sic?)....thats what we do best/worst. It takes losing a man to evoke the kind of motivation in English people because we take it easy when things are going relatively smoothly, the its an "oh shit" moment when things need stepping up a gear.
The whole tournament was a bit of a mess for your reason - sven's decisions. But we did see some moments that confirm out potential to be a trully excellent team....flashes of inspiration if you will.
Ashley Coles run and diving tackle to tip the ball onto the crossbar against Ecuador ( ? ) was possibly one of the best defensive interceptions you're ever likely to see (cue: bobby moore references) and probably kept us in that game to be honest....full credit for moments of greatness like that. (shame it was the equally solid john terry's mistake that caused it lol)
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Sam Slater
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Re: DON'T BE SIDELINED
Caractacus, I've never once blamed Ronaldo. I the video I've provided a link to I never saw him gesture for a card to be shown. It looks like he was just bringing the foul to the refs attention.
All I'm saying is that the referee's reaction is to the push not the alleged stamp. Rooney never stamped on the guy, full stop. He stood on the guy. It was a foul, but Rooney was being pulled by Carvalho first and as you say, the ref was about 3 yds away watching Carvalho pulling him.
Wether England were good enough to win or not. Portugal got the luck with Figo's headbutt (a yellow card for something the referee didn't see, thus stopping him getting further punishment from FIFA), and the luck with an Argentine referee dying for Rooney to react to Carvalho's fouling him. England never get the luck when they need it most unlike other more 'politically favoured' teams.
Like I said, watch the video and the referee's reaction. Can you honestly tell me the foul was for a stamp and not the push?
I'm pissed off England are out, but thats not what I'm reffering to here. It's all about a referee's decision, and his motivations.
All I'm saying is that the referee's reaction is to the push not the alleged stamp. Rooney never stamped on the guy, full stop. He stood on the guy. It was a foul, but Rooney was being pulled by Carvalho first and as you say, the ref was about 3 yds away watching Carvalho pulling him.
Wether England were good enough to win or not. Portugal got the luck with Figo's headbutt (a yellow card for something the referee didn't see, thus stopping him getting further punishment from FIFA), and the luck with an Argentine referee dying for Rooney to react to Carvalho's fouling him. England never get the luck when they need it most unlike other more 'politically favoured' teams.
Like I said, watch the video and the referee's reaction. Can you honestly tell me the foul was for a stamp and not the push?
I'm pissed off England are out, but thats not what I'm reffering to here. It's all about a referee's decision, and his motivations.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
Re: I beg to differ on Cole.
JackHorny wrote:
.
The thing is Jack Joe Cole was playing very well and for me was probably the best England player until he scored his wonder goal.
If he stuck to what he was doing prior to the goal he and I believe the team would have enjoyed a lot more success.
There is a big differance between trying to create something & doing needless fancy stepover showboating.
.
The thing is Jack Joe Cole was playing very well and for me was probably the best England player until he scored his wonder goal.
If he stuck to what he was doing prior to the goal he and I believe the team would have enjoyed a lot more success.
There is a big differance between trying to create something & doing needless fancy stepover showboating.
Re: DON'T BE SIDELINED
His reaction at the time looked very strange. He was standing two metres away, with a clear view, and should have responded immediately.
The Figo butting incident in their previous game was atrocious, and should have been dealt with by the authorities if the referee missed it. But the standard of refereeing has been poor throughout the tournament, and that is down to Fifa and its rules and regulations.
As I said in the Greece post, I don't trust Fifa or UEFA. My feeling is that what goes on in those organisations makes the Serie A four and Keiren Fallon and friends look like saints.
And I wasn't having a go at you, or anyone, Sam. Just thought the sending off was an incidental, and not the reason for England's departure. Until the lesson is learned, that they didn't play well in any of the games, nothing will change. The more the sending off is harped upon, the less attention goes to the non-performers, the tactical inadequacies and so on.
The Figo butting incident in their previous game was atrocious, and should have been dealt with by the authorities if the referee missed it. But the standard of refereeing has been poor throughout the tournament, and that is down to Fifa and its rules and regulations.
As I said in the Greece post, I don't trust Fifa or UEFA. My feeling is that what goes on in those organisations makes the Serie A four and Keiren Fallon and friends look like saints.
And I wasn't having a go at you, or anyone, Sam. Just thought the sending off was an incidental, and not the reason for England's departure. Until the lesson is learned, that they didn't play well in any of the games, nothing will change. The more the sending off is harped upon, the less attention goes to the non-performers, the tactical inadequacies and so on.
Pervert
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Re: I beg to differ on Cole.
I read before the world cup that Pele had said Joe Cole has the skill of a brazilian player but he doesn't know when to use it and when not to....he got that one right on the button eh lol.
I also don't think Ronaldo was necessarily card hunting, but if the ref had already signalled a foul, then wot was Ronaldo pressurising the ref about? Also - he has no business in appealling to the ref the way he does with regularity (i understand) when its nothing to do with him.
Portugal overall are a disgrace - headbutts, diving, pretending to have been hit in the face, card demanding dirty bastards. They have fluked through the last two games in my opinion.
Ronaldo also brings disgrace to the name Ronaldo which should start and finish with the Brazilian striker who whatever you say - use to be awesssome.
I also don't think Ronaldo was necessarily card hunting, but if the ref had already signalled a foul, then wot was Ronaldo pressurising the ref about? Also - he has no business in appealling to the ref the way he does with regularity (i understand) when its nothing to do with him.
Portugal overall are a disgrace - headbutts, diving, pretending to have been hit in the face, card demanding dirty bastards. They have fluked through the last two games in my opinion.
Ronaldo also brings disgrace to the name Ronaldo which should start and finish with the Brazilian striker who whatever you say - use to be awesssome.
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Sam Slater
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Re: DON'T BE SIDELINED
Oh yeah I agree with you there. I'm not saying England were the best team and should automatically have the right to win the tournement. I just think the referee was looking for the slightest opportunity to send off an English player. I won ?50 betting my dad on that assumption before the kickoff! lol!
Looking at the video the referee couldn't be 100% certain Rooney stamped on Carvalho's family jewels purposely. I think Rooney was being pulled backwards just before that, and his foot & bodyweight was going in that general direction anyway. I personally think he could have moved his foot out of the way but let himself stand on the guy. It certainly wasn't a stamp though because he would have had to "load the muscles" to do that, and they weren't "loaded".
The referee reacted to the 'push' that is really my main point, and my only gripe was that the referee was 'looking' & 'hoping' to send off an englishman. He got his wish and now will be loved back in Argentina!
Like I said, England weren't the best team in the tournement, but nor are the other 4 teams that are left. The best teams were Brazil & Argentina. Brazil didn't perform, Argentina & Spain did, but they're all out. There's no controversy in their exits though.
Italy have had the easiest route to the semi's so far, while Portugal have been lucky in 2 matches on the bounce now. I hope Germany or France win the tournement and would really like to see Zidane lift the trophy again before he retires!
P.s I knew you weren't 'having a go', and you've stated your view of the situation pretty neutraly for a Scot...!laugh!
Looking at the video the referee couldn't be 100% certain Rooney stamped on Carvalho's family jewels purposely. I think Rooney was being pulled backwards just before that, and his foot & bodyweight was going in that general direction anyway. I personally think he could have moved his foot out of the way but let himself stand on the guy. It certainly wasn't a stamp though because he would have had to "load the muscles" to do that, and they weren't "loaded".
The referee reacted to the 'push' that is really my main point, and my only gripe was that the referee was 'looking' & 'hoping' to send off an englishman. He got his wish and now will be loved back in Argentina!
Like I said, England weren't the best team in the tournement, but nor are the other 4 teams that are left. The best teams were Brazil & Argentina. Brazil didn't perform, Argentina & Spain did, but they're all out. There's no controversy in their exits though.
Italy have had the easiest route to the semi's so far, while Portugal have been lucky in 2 matches on the bounce now. I hope Germany or France win the tournement and would really like to see Zidane lift the trophy again before he retires!
P.s I knew you weren't 'having a go', and you've stated your view of the situation pretty neutraly for a Scot...!laugh!
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
Re: I beg to differ on Cole.
Joe Cole plays football for one person. Joe Cole
Why lay a nice ball through for someone to score when you can do a flick and get an "ooh" from the crowd
Also, until someone gets hold of Rooney and everyone stops saying "Ahh well, he is only a kid" or "He was unlucky" He will never grow up
The problem as I see it is that all the way through school and even through the youth ranks at Everton and reserves Rooney has been 3 or 4 classes apart from everyone else. Now, here is against World Class opponents and they can stop him, they don't always but they can. When they do he can't handle it, he has never had to. Interestingly he was never sent off all through his youth until a reserve game where he came up against Sol Campbell. Campbell was only in the game to get fit, Rooney was sent off for taking a swing at Campbell. The first time someone was good enough to stop him. He lost it, and he has carried on doing that whenever things aren't going well. Just for England I can think of Northern Ireland and also lets not forget him pushing Iker Casillas into the hoardings in a friendly. Again, we were told "Don't judge him , he is only young!"
I knew at 5 years old that I shouldn't stamp on someone, apparently at 22 he is too young to know that. Does anyone else see a Paul Gascoigne happening here? Or god forbid a George Best. Someone needs to get hold of him, be tough and grow him up. Like 1998 did for Beckham. Beckham wasnt told all was ok, he was pilloried and hated for a year or more. He grew up because of it
Rooney won't if he is treated like a child, he will carry on throwing his toys ut of his pram until he retires
Neil
Why lay a nice ball through for someone to score when you can do a flick and get an "ooh" from the crowd
Also, until someone gets hold of Rooney and everyone stops saying "Ahh well, he is only a kid" or "He was unlucky" He will never grow up
The problem as I see it is that all the way through school and even through the youth ranks at Everton and reserves Rooney has been 3 or 4 classes apart from everyone else. Now, here is against World Class opponents and they can stop him, they don't always but they can. When they do he can't handle it, he has never had to. Interestingly he was never sent off all through his youth until a reserve game where he came up against Sol Campbell. Campbell was only in the game to get fit, Rooney was sent off for taking a swing at Campbell. The first time someone was good enough to stop him. He lost it, and he has carried on doing that whenever things aren't going well. Just for England I can think of Northern Ireland and also lets not forget him pushing Iker Casillas into the hoardings in a friendly. Again, we were told "Don't judge him , he is only young!"
I knew at 5 years old that I shouldn't stamp on someone, apparently at 22 he is too young to know that. Does anyone else see a Paul Gascoigne happening here? Or god forbid a George Best. Someone needs to get hold of him, be tough and grow him up. Like 1998 did for Beckham. Beckham wasnt told all was ok, he was pilloried and hated for a year or more. He grew up because of it
Rooney won't if he is treated like a child, he will carry on throwing his toys ut of his pram until he retires
Neil
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