a appeal against simulated violence

[RobD]

hey guys, some really interesting points, althought its a shame that the bear up a tree finds it necesary to be so insulting, you could have expressed your opinion without reverting to such stereotypical "your a fascist" nonsense.

None of the pro violence brigade has answered my question though, are there any acts which you consider yourself to be beyond the pale? I'm not going to be made to feel a prude by stating that I believe choking and humiliating a woman is not an essential part of our liberties as many have suggested.

[The Bear up a tree]

RobD wrote:

> hey guys, some really interesting points, althought its a shame
> that the bear up a tree finds it necesary to be so insulting,
> you could have expressed your opinion without reverting to such
> stereotypical "your a fascist" nonsense.

truth hurts, kid. but if it sounds like a duck...

> None of the pro violence brigade has answered my question

and you haven't answered my question about what you'll say to a woman who tells you she likes what she likes and you can mind your own business. because that really worries you doesn't it? because they're out there. lots of them. female sexuality is way more complicated and intense than you and i were ever led to believe.

> I'm not going to be made to feel a prude by
> stating that I believe choking and humiliating a woman

even if it is expressly what she has asked for? can you even get your head around that, rob?

> is not
> an essential part of our liberties as many have suggested.

your liberties, rob. don't pretend to care about mine. it's plain you've already dismissed the idea of consensual sex as it appears you don't actually believe a woman is capable of doing so.

so lets get down to it, rob. right here, you can state that you don't believe a woman has the right to perform extreme act of sex.

[one eyed jack]

Most of you know that I work with couples and part of my remit is to film them doing things that they really want to do.

I can name a few scenes that people may criticise me for but as Bear Up A Tree has stated (and I agree with him) some womens sexual tastes far surpass any blokes.

Seems like these days "sisters are doing it for themselves" (So the song goes) if a bloke cant keep up then its bye bye.

This is the sign of the times and porn is just merely reflecting that.

If you cant get your head around it then you dont have to. Theres plenty of loving stuff out there.

Thing is love is confusing too as it can be many things to different people. Some may see that extreme spitting and screaming stuff as being an expression between a loving couple. One might be happy with candle lights and Barry White and and another might want whips and candle wax to something fucked up like Danzig

This is why I love shooting Real Couples. In order to get couples to do this requires trust in me being party to that.

If you think thats bad what you saw, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck when one bloke pulled a knife on his girlfriend and held it at her throat and proceeded to bash her fanny with his cock real hard. Guess what? The girl was chastising him saying: "is that all you got?" LOL

That said Ive also witnessed a couple where the female tied her partner to the table legs, bound and gagged him then proceeded to try and force a champagne bottle (bottom end first) into his arse. Not my cup of tea mind but sod what i thought...This is about them.

[marcusallen]

I maintain that such extremes are NOT sex.
They are about control, domination/submission etc, but certainly not sex.
As I said before, I have no issue what consenting adults get up to, but let them be honest about it and not misuse the word sex.

[randyandy]

Rob your points are valid and your not a prude but as I hinted at in my original post unfortunately pissing against the wind as far as the majority of the industry are concerned.

The consensual / non consensual argument is redundant in the point your making people do see this type of stuff and take it into 'the real world' and whether or not both models consented is irrelevant to those who do this.

The exception to the rule debate is also predominantly pointless but sadly not unexpected these exceptions are minimal and I'd imagine a small percentage of what goes on in the majority of bedrooms.

With regards to the models I sincerely doubt many will reply. To go against could have a consequence on work received and it could also be argued that any that do in support are doing so to keep the ?'s rolling in.

The don't watch argument is particularly laughable because when the industry is debated by those who can have an affect on it they don't go 'for the soft option' they show all the extreme stuff and ask the question do we really need this.

The simple realities are that unfortunately the stuff sells and that is the only thing the industry gives a toss about - the freedom of expression lark is just a huge smokescreen.

It's a shame but it really is all about the money, social responsibility has absolutely no bearing to the majority, it's an industry and people's businesses after all.

[one eyed jack]

Ouch Randy Andy...

"The simple realities are that unfortunately the stuff sells and that is the only thing the industry gives a toss about - the freedom of expression lark is just a huge smokescreen"

Ok I cant speak for the rest of the industry and yes its about money because if it wasnt i wouldnt be around all these years but I do like ot think the couples that do these things are getting something out of it other than the payment.

Couples who usually respond to me through the website never haggle about the money. Marcus has his own opinion that extreme stuff is not about sex but domination etc...Yes I agree. I prefer to think some people like their sex on a psychological level as this heightens the emotion and transcends conventional sex for them.

Im just happy and feel a sense of achievement that a lot of couples indulge themselves honestly for me to film them.

Having said that, more often than not i do get conventional, basic suck and fuck sex too so lets not put me in the abuse/ extreme content producer category yet. The king is definitely got to be Max Hardcore and his ilk

[RobD]

I never said a woman has no right to perform these acts, the original post was about these types of films becoming increasingly mainstream, if two consenting adults wish to engage in these kind of acts thats their business, this is a debate about pornography, not what people do behind closed doors.

In regards to the fascism debate, by your logic there should be no limits on freedom at all, so I take it your ok with the following things

1. swearing and sex on tv during the day when kids are watching
2. racist, homophobic and sexist language in the workplace
3. the legalisation of all drugs, heroin, cocaine, etc

I could go on and on, now I presume that you wouldn't support these things, but that doesn't make you a fascist, nor does myself not liking violent porn a fascist.

This will be the last time I reply to a post of yours if you are unable to reply with civility and respect by the way, as I and every other poster here has done.

[joe king]

'If you go on the evil angel website and have a look at the previews I'm sad to say that most of them feature slapping'

Have you been corrupted by the viewing?

Do you think John Stagliano should be put into prison?

[Mysteryman]

The Bear wrote:

"really? you can't be trying very hard

appeasement. you are an appeaser.

did that help?

what you are suggesting is that people ignore and subdue their true feeling for the sake of a quiet life. keep your head down and everything will be fine.

or you just don't care about people's genuine right to express themselves how the wish. which suggests you're are something entirely different.

which is it?"

Another laughable riposte from The Bear.

You don't know me - but those that do know full well that appeasement comes way down my list of ways of handling confrontational situations.

You presumably feel you, and everyone else, has the right to express themselves as they see fit. So, by your lights, if I see you driving a Rolls and I think that you are both too rich and are ruining the environment by driving it, I should have the right to express my beliefs and demonstrate them however I see fit - including attacking the vehicle, or you.

Or is that a stretch too far for you? Where do you draw the line?

Presumably you would say that, in the case above, you were not a consenting party. But that is the whole point. When does an individuals freedom cross the line of another's consent?

Everyone has different limits and they may change depending on a variety of factors.

A girl may be happy to be slapped or spat on. She may be happy to be peed on, but the male may wish to pee in her mouth, which she does not want. Whose "freedom" comes first? Who has the greater right?

A man may be happy to take part in "humiliation" in, perhaps, a CFNM scene. Then one of the girls wants to try ball busting. He doesn't. but he's outnumbered, is under pressure to submit - whose rights come first? Both have the freedom to express their limits and - in your world - both have the right to do what they want.

Anyway, back to my point. If the promulgation and distribution of sexual material involving single person, couples, threesomes, even orgies - including penetration, cum shots, even water sports - in fact anything that wouldn't be considered violent - is to survive the barrage of condemnation, the restrictions and attempts to totally ban with which governments, religious leaders and pressure groups continually attempt to kill off the industry, such material needs to be de-linked from violence.

Now if you don't understand that, or why it needs to be so, you are perhaps lacking in intellect, or it may be that you don't understand why the majority find violence in a submissive situation distasteful and are therefore swayed by those who, for their own ends, wish to link all pornography witth violence, or perhaps you are just amusing yourself by posting comments to stir up a hornets nest.

[RobD]

None of my posts have called for anyone to go to prison joe, producing this suff isn't illegal now so why would you think I would want him to go to prison?

In terms of no-one being "corrupted" by this stuff well I will refer you back to my original point, the more this stuff becomes mainstream and everyday, the more people watching porn for the first time will come to view this as normal, and I stand by that 100%

Lets bear in mind that if things keep going the way they are in porn the stuff will keep on getting far more extreme as producers look to outdo each other and up the ante. A hardcore film in 1990 would probably be considered quite vanilla nowadays, and I don't look forward to the day when slapping, choking and humiliation is a part of most porn films, because frankly that's the day I'll stop watching.

I'm not trying to label people as perverts here, if consenting adults want to do that kind of stuff then thats up to them, and if I have offended anyone here I'm sorry, I just want people to consider the big picture and think about where this will all lead.