he sure is a horny man, great fun to work with
xx
The problem with UK porn
Re: The problem with UK porn
Terry, I'm with you with all the points you made in your original post. I've been awed by some of the US stuff recently as well.
It doesn't surprise me that the scene you got blown away by comes from a 'production house' whose producers are so incredibly comfortable in their own skin that one of them starting putting out a lady-boy line a couple of years ago that's still going strong (Joey Silvera) and another has just launched a gay oral line (Nacho Vidal).
Things always move forward off the back of some key individuals who want to do things their way, in a new way, and it works and then others try to follow (although in the particular cases cited above, homophobia would doubtless put a bit of a dampener on that). And when you have an industry awash with people happy to fuck for money in front of a camera (because, certainly by comparison to this country, it's gradually become more socially acceptable in certain circles); and when you have certain producers with years of experience managing people in a very sophisticated (and positive) way to get the most out of them, with an eye all of the time on better ways of making money in a very aggressive commercial market at the same time as having a passion for their work; and when you have such a sprawling network of sexual and social interaction, then it seems only logical that there come to exist certain 'zones', 'managed' by certain people, be they producers or performers, into which other potential free spirits are invited to enter. And the end result are situations in which an above-average number of the girls might well get to enjoy the fuck of their lives (which is probably the mantra now for some of these producers when they're putting together shoots).
All of which ends up making the producers an awful lot of money and catching the attention of other producers who want to duplicate that success, other performers who want to share in that glory and joy, and if they don't quite share the exact same talent or free spiritedness as their role models then they certainly understand the complete fucking importance of 'entertainment' and the mechanics of being able to deliver it. Consequently their second best, not least because what they're looking up to is so ridiculously good, ends up being an extremely respectable second best.
Doubtless people will pick holes in the above. I have no personal experience of the LA industry so this is very much speculation but it just makes basic sense to me having seen a lot of very arousing stuff from Evil Angel recently (and it takes an awful lot to get me going these days) but likewise some real kick-arse scenes from other directors working for other companies.
It all boils down to how people feel inside and outside of the industry and here's where we can refer back to the UK -- that as porn becomes more socially acceptable across certain stratas of society then more girls and boys feel that they're at greater liberty to enter into it; and that as porn directors become better able to properly read, guide and manage their performers, creating for them a safety zone in which they can totally let loose and have fun, then the greater the odds of them being able to produce quality stuff that more and more people will want get their rocks off to, which in itself leads back to what Terry was saying about performers being aware of the level that the best of the best are operating at. It's self-perpetuating.
The way this thread has gone, pretty quickly veering off into the usual bollocks, hasn't surprised me. Terry's original posting was the opener for a very interesting discussion and I can only conclude that some of the more vocal people out there simply, in truth, don't really care about the state of British porn but just love jerking off with their own moaning about it.
A case in point. Chavs. Recently I saw a couple of scenes by a UK outfit that call themselves Badger Towers or something, the main guy calls himself Mr Badger. Now for all I know this guy posts regularly on this site under a different moniker and, mate, if you do then total fucking hats off to you. Those couple of scenes were, hands down, the best British porn I have seen, totally excellent. Yeah the girls were chavs, the locations were your average crappy semi, so far so Britporn. But the wit these guys had, very much a working class thing, razor sharp, laugh-out-loud funny, was just sheer joy. It was what comedic British gonzo should be, none of this boorish, laddish banter that sinks so much of this stuff, it was clever, entertaining laddish banter. And all of this was packaged up into a kind of kid's TV show, not in a dodgy way, just using a similar kind of music, having the guys called Mr Badger and Mr Squirrel or whatever. Sheer genius, very English. And it was really making the girls laugh, it was relaxing them and the fucking was very hot. And despite the fact that the girls weren't my type at all, because the whole package worked so well, I got really turned on by the fucking. Now I don't read every single post on BGAFD but I do keep my eye on it -- why have I never, ever read any comments about these guys and their stuff? Not one.
Likewise why do I never read the name 'Tanya Hyde' in threads that grumble about the lack of money or diversity in UK porn? What, the money isn't there? Give me a break, the money's just not being given to you.
Another thing. The ugly side of US porn. I won't dispute this. But please can we see the bigger picture and recognise that other markets exist over there, that misogyny isn't actually taking over the whole industry, that it also has a thriving couples market? And actually that the drive to more energized, hard-hitting sex scenes has been, for some producers, not a continuing path that ends up with girls being gagged so much that they vomit, but one chapter in a thorough and ongoing examination of human sexuality, whether it's boy on girl, girl on boy, girl on girl or boy on boy. Again, you don't really have to look much further than the titles that Evil Angel are putting out at the moment. It seems to me there are two kinds of 'nasty' product: the kind that's made by little, scared men who love to degrade women because it gives them a power kick and who could never bear to have the tables turned on them; and the kind that's made by men (and women) who are totally comfortable in their own skins and are just as happy whether a woman's cracking the whip or a man. Just take a look at the trailer for Jules Jordan's Take No Prisoners on the Evil Angel website. Of course market forces are at work here. But fundamentally it's about what's turning the producer on which, in turn, he thinks is going to turn the punter on. (And no, I'm not saying that all Evil Angel stuff is wholesome and positive, just that the actual truth of the matter is a little more textured and multi-faceted than many people believe it to be.)
Of course all of this is a world away from the situation here in the UK. (Other things I could mention are our lack of star performers, the kinds of people who can really push the buttons of the people they're working with, and the much-needed education that many of us need in PR and marketing. Yeah I know, plus the distribution thing, plus this, plus that.) And the place that the States have got to is also a lot to do with time, the years of progressive experience that they've been able to enjoy over there.
But hey, I'm an optimist. But also a realist. It's going to be a bloody long haul. But I see no insurmountable reason why, with a model such as the US one that the more focussed and dedicated amongst us can examine and take apart, we can't take less time to get closer to where they are than it's taken them to. What matters isn't the large number of people complaining that everything's so crap. What matters is the small number of people who see a future and go out and make it happen.
Same as it ever was.
It doesn't surprise me that the scene you got blown away by comes from a 'production house' whose producers are so incredibly comfortable in their own skin that one of them starting putting out a lady-boy line a couple of years ago that's still going strong (Joey Silvera) and another has just launched a gay oral line (Nacho Vidal).
Things always move forward off the back of some key individuals who want to do things their way, in a new way, and it works and then others try to follow (although in the particular cases cited above, homophobia would doubtless put a bit of a dampener on that). And when you have an industry awash with people happy to fuck for money in front of a camera (because, certainly by comparison to this country, it's gradually become more socially acceptable in certain circles); and when you have certain producers with years of experience managing people in a very sophisticated (and positive) way to get the most out of them, with an eye all of the time on better ways of making money in a very aggressive commercial market at the same time as having a passion for their work; and when you have such a sprawling network of sexual and social interaction, then it seems only logical that there come to exist certain 'zones', 'managed' by certain people, be they producers or performers, into which other potential free spirits are invited to enter. And the end result are situations in which an above-average number of the girls might well get to enjoy the fuck of their lives (which is probably the mantra now for some of these producers when they're putting together shoots).
All of which ends up making the producers an awful lot of money and catching the attention of other producers who want to duplicate that success, other performers who want to share in that glory and joy, and if they don't quite share the exact same talent or free spiritedness as their role models then they certainly understand the complete fucking importance of 'entertainment' and the mechanics of being able to deliver it. Consequently their second best, not least because what they're looking up to is so ridiculously good, ends up being an extremely respectable second best.
Doubtless people will pick holes in the above. I have no personal experience of the LA industry so this is very much speculation but it just makes basic sense to me having seen a lot of very arousing stuff from Evil Angel recently (and it takes an awful lot to get me going these days) but likewise some real kick-arse scenes from other directors working for other companies.
It all boils down to how people feel inside and outside of the industry and here's where we can refer back to the UK -- that as porn becomes more socially acceptable across certain stratas of society then more girls and boys feel that they're at greater liberty to enter into it; and that as porn directors become better able to properly read, guide and manage their performers, creating for them a safety zone in which they can totally let loose and have fun, then the greater the odds of them being able to produce quality stuff that more and more people will want get their rocks off to, which in itself leads back to what Terry was saying about performers being aware of the level that the best of the best are operating at. It's self-perpetuating.
The way this thread has gone, pretty quickly veering off into the usual bollocks, hasn't surprised me. Terry's original posting was the opener for a very interesting discussion and I can only conclude that some of the more vocal people out there simply, in truth, don't really care about the state of British porn but just love jerking off with their own moaning about it.
A case in point. Chavs. Recently I saw a couple of scenes by a UK outfit that call themselves Badger Towers or something, the main guy calls himself Mr Badger. Now for all I know this guy posts regularly on this site under a different moniker and, mate, if you do then total fucking hats off to you. Those couple of scenes were, hands down, the best British porn I have seen, totally excellent. Yeah the girls were chavs, the locations were your average crappy semi, so far so Britporn. But the wit these guys had, very much a working class thing, razor sharp, laugh-out-loud funny, was just sheer joy. It was what comedic British gonzo should be, none of this boorish, laddish banter that sinks so much of this stuff, it was clever, entertaining laddish banter. And all of this was packaged up into a kind of kid's TV show, not in a dodgy way, just using a similar kind of music, having the guys called Mr Badger and Mr Squirrel or whatever. Sheer genius, very English. And it was really making the girls laugh, it was relaxing them and the fucking was very hot. And despite the fact that the girls weren't my type at all, because the whole package worked so well, I got really turned on by the fucking. Now I don't read every single post on BGAFD but I do keep my eye on it -- why have I never, ever read any comments about these guys and their stuff? Not one.
Likewise why do I never read the name 'Tanya Hyde' in threads that grumble about the lack of money or diversity in UK porn? What, the money isn't there? Give me a break, the money's just not being given to you.
Another thing. The ugly side of US porn. I won't dispute this. But please can we see the bigger picture and recognise that other markets exist over there, that misogyny isn't actually taking over the whole industry, that it also has a thriving couples market? And actually that the drive to more energized, hard-hitting sex scenes has been, for some producers, not a continuing path that ends up with girls being gagged so much that they vomit, but one chapter in a thorough and ongoing examination of human sexuality, whether it's boy on girl, girl on boy, girl on girl or boy on boy. Again, you don't really have to look much further than the titles that Evil Angel are putting out at the moment. It seems to me there are two kinds of 'nasty' product: the kind that's made by little, scared men who love to degrade women because it gives them a power kick and who could never bear to have the tables turned on them; and the kind that's made by men (and women) who are totally comfortable in their own skins and are just as happy whether a woman's cracking the whip or a man. Just take a look at the trailer for Jules Jordan's Take No Prisoners on the Evil Angel website. Of course market forces are at work here. But fundamentally it's about what's turning the producer on which, in turn, he thinks is going to turn the punter on. (And no, I'm not saying that all Evil Angel stuff is wholesome and positive, just that the actual truth of the matter is a little more textured and multi-faceted than many people believe it to be.)
Of course all of this is a world away from the situation here in the UK. (Other things I could mention are our lack of star performers, the kinds of people who can really push the buttons of the people they're working with, and the much-needed education that many of us need in PR and marketing. Yeah I know, plus the distribution thing, plus this, plus that.) And the place that the States have got to is also a lot to do with time, the years of progressive experience that they've been able to enjoy over there.
But hey, I'm an optimist. But also a realist. It's going to be a bloody long haul. But I see no insurmountable reason why, with a model such as the US one that the more focussed and dedicated amongst us can examine and take apart, we can't take less time to get closer to where they are than it's taken them to. What matters isn't the large number of people complaining that everything's so crap. What matters is the small number of people who see a future and go out and make it happen.
Same as it ever was.
-
Officer Dibble
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: The problem with UK porn
That's all very eloquent and I'm glad you're feeling so warm and positive about it all. But what your post tells me, andy, is that you're seriously engaged with it, wrapped up in it, immersed in it. You obviously love it, and of course when we love something, we cease to be objective about it. When I speak about porn I speak from the perspective of a punter, which is what I was originally, an ordinary punter. I knew what I liked when I saw it (the types of ladies and scenarios) and that was that. I then went away and got on with the 95% of my life that didn't involve porn - till the next time. It didn't consume my whole being, I never lost any sleep considering the minutiae or dynamism of the protagonists 'performances' or pondered their sexual motives, or the sexual mind games they may or may not have been playing out with each other. As an ordinary Joe Punter all I was interested in was a woman I would find attractive being shagged in different outfits, situations, and scenarios, sorted. And today, that?s still all I require from a good porn film. I believe the same thing applies to the vast majority of customers and potential customers today.
Like the artist who feels that his work has been snubbed by the critics, or overlooked by the philistine pubic ("the large number of people complaining that everything's so crap.") you?re miffed and exasperated. It all looks so clear to you from your perspective and you can't understand why a lot of other folks don't see it that way too. But just try and step back, imagine how it all appears to an ordinary, average, member of the public who might just fancy watching 'a porn film' every now and then. Someone who just wants to see sexually attractive people shagging, and nothing more. If they have simple requirements of a porn film don't you think they might be turned off by excess and overindulgence by sexually inert performers?
Although I don't see things your way, andy, I do respect your obvious enthusiasm (as I do Terry's, Phil's, etc) and the 'Mr Squirrel & Badger' thing sounds great fun (sort of thing I'd come up with myself). But if 'chav birds' aren't you cup of tea, don't you feel a teensy bit dismayed at the seeming lack of any other options for UK producers?
Officer Dibble
Like the artist who feels that his work has been snubbed by the critics, or overlooked by the philistine pubic ("the large number of people complaining that everything's so crap.") you?re miffed and exasperated. It all looks so clear to you from your perspective and you can't understand why a lot of other folks don't see it that way too. But just try and step back, imagine how it all appears to an ordinary, average, member of the public who might just fancy watching 'a porn film' every now and then. Someone who just wants to see sexually attractive people shagging, and nothing more. If they have simple requirements of a porn film don't you think they might be turned off by excess and overindulgence by sexually inert performers?
Although I don't see things your way, andy, I do respect your obvious enthusiasm (as I do Terry's, Phil's, etc) and the 'Mr Squirrel & Badger' thing sounds great fun (sort of thing I'd come up with myself). But if 'chav birds' aren't you cup of tea, don't you feel a teensy bit dismayed at the seeming lack of any other options for UK producers?
Officer Dibble
-
Illinoisblue
- Posts: 557
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: The problem with UK porn
Maybe they've improved over time, but the one and only Mr Badger film I saw (about 18 months ago) was a pisspoor effort. Crap lighting which meant you couldn't see what was happening and far too much absurd 'humour' to make any sense.
Do people really want wit and Messrs Badger and Squirrel in a porn film?
Do people really want wit and Messrs Badger and Squirrel in a porn film?
Re: The problem with UK porn
Officer Dibble
I actually agree with much of what you voice on this forum and I'm pretty sure we share very similar tastes to what we like (or would like) to see in a porn movie. I'm with you on the 'chav' thing. We both like to see attractive women (not girls) enjoying sex on camera. And I couldn't agree more with your general comments about British society compared to those of our European cousins.
But in the make-up of that British society I also find a negativism that is, unsurprisingly, given full voice on this forum. It's lazy, blinkered and defeatist. Yes I am passionate. And passion drives progress.
You made a telling remark in your last paragraph regarding the Mr Squirrel stuff: "sort of thing I'd come up with myself". Well, for someone who often complains about the lack of decent budgets for UK productions, er, why didn't you? By the look of the scenes they hardly cost a dime and all the creativity was thrown in for free.
I actually agree with much of what you voice on this forum and I'm pretty sure we share very similar tastes to what we like (or would like) to see in a porn movie. I'm with you on the 'chav' thing. We both like to see attractive women (not girls) enjoying sex on camera. And I couldn't agree more with your general comments about British society compared to those of our European cousins.
But in the make-up of that British society I also find a negativism that is, unsurprisingly, given full voice on this forum. It's lazy, blinkered and defeatist. Yes I am passionate. And passion drives progress.
You made a telling remark in your last paragraph regarding the Mr Squirrel stuff: "sort of thing I'd come up with myself". Well, for someone who often complains about the lack of decent budgets for UK productions, er, why didn't you? By the look of the scenes they hardly cost a dime and all the creativity was thrown in for free.
-
Matt - A-W-D
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: The problem with UK porn
Whether this is on topic or not i don't know but... for me the problem with UK porn is getting it out into the market. It costs a lot of money to get it through the BBFC and as a distributor we can only sell it to the "trade". In the US, the movies can be purchased from places like Walmart, convenience stores and filling stations. In the UK we are stuck (legaly) from buying only from licenced sex shops and i don't know of any sex shops within a 30 mile radius from were i live which isn't really convenient. Whether i would actually visit a sex shop is another matter of course.
Whilst the BGAFD is a great forum, most posters here are somewhat "dedicated" and have specific tastes and probably only account for a small percantage of regular viewers/buyers/subscribers of adult material. At the end of the day, to the normal working bloke, porn is porn and if it gets them off... so be it.
Whilst the BGAFD is a great forum, most posters here are somewhat "dedicated" and have specific tastes and probably only account for a small percantage of regular viewers/buyers/subscribers of adult material. At the end of the day, to the normal working bloke, porn is porn and if it gets them off... so be it.
[url=http://realsexpost.com/?aff_id=100001]RealSexPost.com[/url]
-
Illinoisblue
- Posts: 557
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: The problem with UK porn
Agreed that porn films are much easier to obtain over here in the States (The Virgin megastore downtown has a fair-sized adult section) but to say you can buy porn from Walmart is very wrong; they don't touch the stuff and even insist on record companies supplying music CDs with any potential offensive lyrics removed.
Land of the free and all that....
Land of the free and all that....
-
one eyed jack
- Posts: 12410
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
- Location: London
- Contact:
Re: The problem with UK porn
I recommend Private and Viv Thomas for Officer Dibble. See, theres something for everyone.
www.realcouples.com
www.onemanbanned.com
www.linkmojo.me/realcouples
www.twitter.com/realcouples
www.facebook.com/realcouples
www.onemanbanned.com
www.linkmojo.me/realcouples
www.twitter.com/realcouples
www.facebook.com/realcouples
Re: The problem with UK porn
This is fair and justifiable comment Matt.. I was recently talking to a (potential) investor in the adult entertainment industry and he said that he felt the future was in DVD production... maybe it is... but, as you correctly point out - at this moment in time the potential returns from BBFC certified DVDs is significantly less than launching the material on a website where BBFC rating is irrelevant and it adds to the magnitude of the available material... Until the ridiculous restrictions are lifted DVD/Video will continue ot be small time and restricted to the same old faces puming out the same old formulaic stuff... Thats my relatively uneducated opinion... what I'm saying is - if I had footage - why would I want to release it on DVD/Video with all the charges to go with it when I can put it straight to web with NO CHARGES????
Like I've said earlier - I look forward to Terry's new stuff... maybe we're looking at a new era in Brit-porn...?
By the way Terry - I look forward to that call - and if I may suggest a "pairing" - you could do worse than to put me with Miss Kym Morgan - Round One was my best scene to date - the re-match would be a blinder... that girl is on my wavelength!!!!
Like I've said earlier - I look forward to Terry's new stuff... maybe we're looking at a new era in Brit-porn...?
By the way Terry - I look forward to that call - and if I may suggest a "pairing" - you could do worse than to put me with Miss Kym Morgan - Round One was my best scene to date - the re-match would be a blinder... that girl is on my wavelength!!!!
I retired when I sadly realised nobody wanted me!