And you wonder why UK porn is so bad..

[escape]

I have just read all 77 posts on why Brit Porn is so bad on an earlier thread and also having read the many posts when a new producer is asking for help to pull together resources and just gets flamed, or when someone from the outside asks to do a mainstream article on porn and all they get is questions about how much they will be paying, and you still wonder why UK porn is in such a state.

In many of the threads in the ?State of Brit Porn? people quite rightly lament about the quality of the new girls coming in to the business and yet when someone posts a thread asking for help to try out some new ideas and shoot some test shots all they get is replies telling them to pull up their trousers and fuck off.

Why is it that people feel that the new girls and new producers are going to be hot stuff straight off the bat, in every other performing arena people have to learn their trade. I?ve been working in films and TV for over ten years now and everybody that I work with has had to start off at the bottom, that means doing unpaid work and working on their own short films to build up their skill as well as their show reel.

Friends of mine that I studied with that spent two years doing low/unpaid work are now earning 30 grand a job as 1st Assistant directors and good luck to them.

Surely if the UK porn business is going to progress and produce the world leading quality that I?m 100% sure that it could, it will first have to start to work together and stop fighting it's self from within.

When you look at some of the talent and knowledge available on this forum it is amazing just how far we are from where we could be.

It seems the people like One Eyed Jack and Video Kim etc who always post helpful and informative posts to up and coming producers and talent must be fighting an uphill struggle.

On a end note, I?m proud of the UK porn industry and especially the people mentioned above and people like Marcus Allen, Jim devlin and anyone else who has the police cautions to prove that they had the guts to put their money where their mouth was long before it became legit to be in the porn business.

UK PORN? BEST IN THE WORLD (if not today, then one day soon)

[Joe A]

Escape

That was a very good post ... But...

A lot of the wanabee producers don't give enough information to be taken seriously and then they vanish.... I don't think we frighten them off.. I think that we've been proved right. If I was asked for information that could be verified and I was genuine.. I'd provide it. Two examples of newbies who not only received help but have met and become friends with a few of us, are Big Red of Demon Eye and Nige of MAI as they did things the correct way.

Flaming and asking for money for documentaries, isn't always the case. All I'll say for now is, watch Ch 4 in Feb or March for a programme with the working title "Porn Virgins," as a few regualr posters on the BGAFD will be seen in it. No money was paid to anyone and the producer was an ok guy to work with. This won't be having a go at anyone, as most seem to think all documentaries are about, but looks at girls who have given up well paid normal day jobs to take up porn full time.

I'm limited in the help I can offer as I work in a specific niche, but I do try to give a little when I can, and I have received help when asked... So all in all I would say that quite a few of us do work together and not against in our what is still a cottage industry in the UK...

[escape]

Joe A,

having read your post I would be the first to agree with you and not wishing to sound like I?m back tracking, but? it?s the word ?wannabe? that I most agree with.

I can fully understand your point about if you are legit then why be shy about proving it and I?m also more than aware of the number of ?wannabe? producers / directors that the porn industry over all other industries must attract.

My feeling was that there just doesn?t seem to be the same avenues for new genuine talent coming in to the business, be they behind the camera or in front.

I have a friend who is making plans to set up his own little production label on a limited budget and through the work he does in his day job has made a solid connection in Tokyo with regards to selling content for the rental market there. We both went out for a drink with the guy from Japan while he was in London for a few days before he went to the Berlin Sex Fair. Everyone had told him not to bother stopping in the UK because there was no point as we don?t have a proper porn industry here, which is true, as you say we only have a cottage industry.

So I just cant help feeling that if as an industry we would look at the bigger picture and plan for two, three years down the line then we would end up having an industry the we could all be proud of, (not just me and the rest of the brave few)

This sentiment is just as much, if not more, aimed at the new girls girls coming in to the business who seem to think that they can charge the same as the established girls who have proved their worth. Surely having sex while being filmed can not be such a chore that you could not possibly do it without getting paid ?300, even if you need the practice of performing on camera and in the process help out a new producer.

I know it?s a double edge sword, if you don?t pay the money then your not going to get any girls, let alone good ones? but just look at the situation as it is now with new girls.

Maybe if they also had a reason to believe that the UK porn industry and in turn their own career, was worth investing in then they would give there time and effort more freely and everybody would end up wining.

[Joe A]

You seem to advocating for new females to work for zero... OUCH....!!!
I don't think you'll get a lot of support with that suggestion at all... That is wishful thinking.

A female starting off in b/g films should be paid the same as a girl who's been doing it for years, and if she proves to be good, she should be paid extra in my eyes. I am used to shooting brand new models for my sites and I will pay them extra 99% of the time if they are good. This will encourage them. Asking them to work for nothing or a share of possible profits is a definite no no. If someone is starting out as a producer, they should have the funds and if they don't, they should just leave it as an idea for the future till they do.

I had no intention of ever using a camera (Some say it should have stayed like that) till I was approached by Ch5 about my business. They wanted to film me doing a shoot.. I found Waplole, explained the situation and as I was 100% a webmaster back then, I had a few web sites, so they could verify I was legitimate... And it just went on from there... But I had something to prove I was legitimate.

So to newbie/wanabee producers...

a) Have the funds to pay your models

b) Offer information that can be verified and you'll get all the help you'll need and more.

[Rebekah]

In danger of sounding repetive but i feel i must add to Joe's points and give my thrupence worth (as my grandad would say) anyway my view as someone who has worked the industry hard and lately behind the camera aswell is that most people dont have a problem with "genuine talent" as and when it arrives the biggest pain in the ass is, A- every tom dick and harry seeing the genre of Gonzo and "real Porn" that the likes of camp dover and one eyed jack are producing and have mastered down to a fine art and think to themselves one boozed up wank fest night "i can do that" nip down currys for a camcorder then onto an agency site, actually no i retract that cos they probably wouldn"t want to fork out the agency fee's so its off to some free amateur model site book a girl or two and if there really lucky they get to put the camera on a tripod and knob the girls for 5 mins as well! then they reckon they are porn producers without a thought to what else goes with it, editing distribution...blah blah blah and to make it worse there is always some guy down the pub who knows some owner of a sex shop who will buy it off him! Now dont get me wrong i have no problem with those who start this and see it through its just, well these 1 timers who have no passion for their work, leading me nicely to point B, the girls who think ooh today i'll be a pornstar join a model site or agency and hey presto new face=loads of work cos no matter how ropey, if you will fuck on film you will get hired, regardless of the fact that they may well face the camera the whole time going ohh yeah baby your dicks so big give it to me like that whilst the whole time thinking ?350 for me in an hour! ...again no bloody passion about what their doing or a thought for the fact that it is THE most intimate thing you can do with a person!!
anyway thats just my opinion...
byeeeeeeeee xxxxx

[escape]

Now it?s me who is in danger of sounding repetitive,

But I totally agree with you Rebekah, although I?m sure that you as someone who has been in the business for awhile now and, from reading on this forum, gained quite a lot of respect for your work in front of the camera and more lately for you work behind it, would agree that just having the money to shoot a film does in no way guarantee it?s going to be any good and in the same way being able to pay a model the going rate does not in any way guarantee a good performance.

There must be a responsibility on both sides of the camera to put in a good performance.

So why is it that this industry seems to feel that with all the evidence pointing to the fact that the consumer is not that happy with the product being delivered, they still hold tight to the currant methods of producing content with no thought of ever looking at how more successful industries nurture the talent and create a pride and self belief in being part of that industry.

And before anyone says I?m trying to get all girls to work for free, all I?m saying is that is not a bad idea to give the new talent the chance to hone their skills and then prove their worth without having to first trump up a couple of grand to get their first attempt up and running, there are other ways of doing things..

[davewells]

As I have always said, and comparing the porn industry here with the mainstream film industry in this thread is a good idea because without the right funding/investment and care neither industry will grow to be a major world force. Give me a decent budget and I'll make great movies. With nearly 22 years experience making pictures and movies for all of the top magazines and video companies on the planet I do know what I am doing and talking about.

[davewells]

Yes ghostdog, thats exactly what I meant.