Rates Debate

[Masie]

AGAIN"! I know just a quickie this time. As an after thought to the ?100 hard core model situation it now seems even stranger to me that companys dont have a set rate for what they pay their girls. I was on a lovely shoot today and the guy explained to me that I was getting an extra ?50 to what i had expected as thats there standard rate, he pays all his models the same rate evetytime to avoid upset.

Now I know what your all about to say - different models charge different rates we have to work to what they want. Heres how I see it.


A. Each company will have set rate rate for what they offer girls (this will differ between companies) Girls who are very established (the likes of Tanya Cox) I feel should be offered more than standard if budget allows, if it doesnt im sure they wouldbe happy to just not work with that particular company as being the bigger names they will be in demand for the fans they bring with them to a website.

B. If a model offers harder levels obviously she gets more but this should be on a visable scale say ?50 for extras such as cream pie or fisting etc

C. if this was the case I think you'd find most girls would happily have the same rates as its really hard to gadge what to put when asked what your rates are when you know a job has alot of interest. Too high they dont want to know you but to low and your loosing out (and selling out)

Assuming that the ?100 model was booked through an actual publisher of porn rather than a collector this would have avoided her being in my opinion either very stupid or exploited (not sure which yet).

Oh finally the lovely Kaz attached this to other post I have never seen it before is there somewhere more prominant it could go as its very helpful?

[mybeautifultease]

My two cents:
I think a debate about set rates and levels that those are set for is a valid one.

I generally have set rates, available to potential models, over at my application pages, but usually request the models rate in my correspondence with her. If I feel I can meet it (be it cheaper or over my rate but still within my budget) I'm more than happy to work with that.

I feel, generally not all models are paid fairly by some companies but then on the other hand some companies pay very well. Also, models who competitively price themselves in a bid to undercut every other model in the industry is a problem - especially if they are good performers.

I don't like the current bidding for work system, I never thought that happened before I started producing content but since casting and searching for performers I'm surprised just how low some models will go in terms of payment.

There is also a similar situation with male talent too, some working for free just because the demand is there - it is bonkers to me!

I feel torn between advocating for rates that may be more expensive to me as producer and potentially cost me even more to shoot as regular as I need to but fairer to the performer. I'm not in a position to pay much more than I currently offer but if I was I'd like to think that would be an important art of my business and company ethos.

If you'd like to give my rates a once over feel free: http://www.mybeautifultease.com/models/rates/

I'd be happy to hear thoughts and comments.

[Masie]

you could just work out what you can afford rate wise and stick to it, that way all models who work for you know they are getting same as each other and no bidding has to take place. Bigger companies will still pay more and different companies will offer diferent rates but every girls who enquires about work will be told these are our rates instead of having to come up with her own.

[mybeautifultease]

Thanks Masie, that's a good plan. When booking a model I had always assumed they would be more comfortable quoting a rate, I'd hate to think that a performer had 'settled' for the rate I offered but turned up feeling under-priced or valued.

I don't book in forums - only by private message or e-mail, so there is no public bidding such as the '?100 hardcore' post of late for any work I have to offer.

[Masie]

Your lovely Ben, having standard rates per institution just seems to make more sense to me, if you get a super star who wants a bit more you a least have a starting bench and if you find lots of girls haggle you know you are probably offering bit bellow whats expected. Its the part of my job I hate the most that and being paid if other people have been working along side me (say a b/g/g etc) I have been on sets where producers have taken people to one side individually to pay us seperatly. This obviously means we all got paid different and can leave an awquard taste in the air to what was other wise a lovely day.

[one eyed jack]

Masie wrote:

Oh finally the lovely Kaz attached this to other post http://ukadultproducers.com/board/showthread.php?t=577 I have never seen it before is there somewhere more prominant it could go as its very helpful?


I would say that posting it on the UKAP forum is about as prominent as it will get considering that people who decide not to associate with it are in hostility towards any notion of an industry standard and only fair that producers within the association are happy with this standard but are free to negotiate on their own terms.

If they pay too low the waythey are punished is by being reminded how cheap they are..."Pay up ya cheap bastard etc" Other than that its really up to the girls to decide what they enter an agreement to with a producers she is working with.

I feel I pay a fair rate and over the odds what the average company shooting couples pays but also if I get a sterling video that make my eyes pop out and my hairs stand on end I do slip in an extra ?20 on top as a "drink"

Back in the day we used to take girls and boys out to dinner and chill out with bowling or some such but that was a different time. The industry is so churn em and burn em these days that sex just seems to come across as a perfunctory thing to do like a Monday morning job than for what it really is, a bloody fun thing to do but I understand that various things are ion play that prevent this from happening like say...Ooh the model actually liking who she is working with etc

I never argue a girls rate. If I htink im being had I just simply say thanks but no thanks. Why waste time haggling?

peple desperate to work with certain girls and spoil them by paying their exorbitant rates are only going to shoot themselves in the foot. Lets face it, how many producers really care about other producers anyway? its a dog eat dog world out there...Or rather a prod eat prod world should I say.

My philosophy is if you have to put a price on it, if they cant work for the fee you are paying you are not going to get any better if you paid the same amount ten times over either.

Personally Ive seen performances that deserve a lot more money but one can only spend within ones budget if they are to facilitate shooting their quota in a month ie if you need 3 shoots but pay the first model a bonus it may inpact onthe second or third shoot.

I think the rates set out on UKAP are a fair guide. Heaven help us if the models ever formed their own associatation and started laying down the law.

We'd all be done for.

[one eyed jack]

I seem to reember one other producer who was extremely rude and arrogant suggesting we are not the industry standard.

He is right.

We are not.

But on the face of it, an association like what we have is a good step in the right direction to self regulation in terms of appearances and given that we have negotiated meetings with health, lawyers, anti piracy (dvds and websites) and more I would say that we are at least a step in the right direction and unlike that rather hostile person, are actually quite a friendly bunch who are not an old boys club as it has been suggested.

I'm all about what I've been about since I started....The money!

I just know if we are to try and bring some sense to any chaos and running ones business more efficiently then it wil be done better on a unified front than the hostile, fractured business it appears to be right now.

The way I see it, producers are the ones had over a barrel at the moment as we are in the frontline of dealing with models as well as distributors, satellie companies, publishers etc so therefore in the firing line.

[one eyed jack]

What Im really trying to say is:

If there was an acceptable standard across the board with everyone, amateur and professional then there would be no need for any associations, hence why there are several already that some may not have heard about that are influential in getting things done and changing things hopefully for the better for those within it such as AITA (an association for the retail trade) ....Even more secretive is the one that involves the satellite station community.

They are so secretive I dont think they have a name.

[Matt P]

This is something I've been discussing for months with various people & I think what it comes down to is there has to be some form concillation within UK porn with the aim towards standardisation of behaviour.

Someone raised a very good point that the industry is still pretty much an underground one so everyone within in it are a law unto themselves which is fine when they're one of the good guys but not so good when they're one of the sleazy minority.

I proposed a voluntary code of practice along the lines of the banking code. It's free but those that sign upto it indentify themselves as one of the good guys provided they agree & keep to a set standard, rates being one condition. Obviously there would be application, comformity, suspension & expulsion processes so it wasn't just a McGuffin. Now a performer is more likely to work for them because of this affliation; an insitute of responsible porngraphers so to speak. But it wouldn't work for one simply reason is there are just those that want to be king of the castle even though the foundation crumbles around them & exploitative rates are pretty much the underpinning to that demolition. Think, if you give the ammuntion for negative opinion then that's exactly what's going to happen & there's only going to be som uch allowed before the whole thing comes crashing down.

All I want to do is make good porn with good people, everyone I've worked for so far has exceeded that expectation(obviously with the exception of the cut cock incident which just proves there's a lot more to making porn than buying a camera). My rates are low but the reward of being part of something that means a lot to me is far greater.

[one eyed jack]

I like to think UKAP fulfill that criteria Matt. If we dont then those who have met us at our industry network parties would be the first up on here to chastise us.

I noticed the ones who were outspoken against us are the ones criticising us but yet they know nothing. They just hear association and already fear control without realising it was set up by similar minds and interests as them but a lot of producers are a jaded, cynical and distrusting and thats really what impeded any real progress from happening.

Meanwhile the wheel is turning slow but they are turning