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On the subject of references (since there seem to have been some close-calls recently and some similar issues) can I please be blunt in the hope that it saves time money and perhaps even a life one day?

Any old crappy email address is not a reference!
THIS COULD BE ANYONE!

Some website that may or may not belong to the person booking you is not a reference!
EVEN A REPLY FROM THE WEBSITE ADMIN COULD MEAN NO MORE THAN THEY ARE FRIENDS WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHER IN QUESTION - HE MAY STILL BE UNRELIABLE OR DANGEROUS. THEY MAY NOT KNOW HIM THAT WELL!

A phone call with the person themselves or another model is NOT a reference!
WHO IS THE PERSON ON THE OTHER END OF THE PHONE?

As an ex employer (in an ordinary industry) I have some idea of what references are about and how to check them, what to accept and what to knock-back as bollocks.
BUT DO YOU? I mean REALLY?
It seems, more and more, to me that as long as someone makes an offer of good money the model's brain will go into 'trust' mode and she'll go along even if references are odd, incomplete, inadequate, dodgy or downright non-existent.

I'm sure that some bright-spark will tell me that they have a living to make and that they have done lots of jobs where references were not given or investigated and everything was alright. But that only serves to prove my point... Money made your mind up and you were safe and well paid simply because of the honesty of the photographer.
But you only need to fuck-up once!

If people work with others who don't have certs then the system falls apart. It works because as inconvenient as it is, people realize how important certs are and they get them and insist on seeing them at the shoot (Good God I hope people actually DO see them at the shoots - and I mean that MODELS SEE THEM and not just take the word of the producer - God help us all!) But anyway it works because everyone says that this is the bottom-line. If we all did this over references then yes it would be a pain in the arse (just like certs) but then everyone would have to make sure they had them and the industry would cope.

GET REFERENCES.
CHECK REFERENCES.
REALLY CHECK REFERENCES.
INSIST ON A CHAPERONE IF UNSURE.

Or call me a twat, cross your fingers and risk rape and murder if you prefer.

Bloody good advise.

xxxx

As someone who has been thinking of getting into this line of work, there is certainly some things there to think about and keep in mind

So thanks - I'll refrain from calling you "a twat" until I know more and get too big for my boots !wink! !grin!

But seriously, thanks for the advice xx

As always Daz some sensible advice, well done for taking the time to put pen to paper, or fingers to keys but you catch my drift.

Melodyx

Another idea if a "Producer" sounds convincing and genuine, but a model isn't sure, is simply to insist on meeting INSIDE a public place like a major railway station, walk around and find a coffee shop together and then chat there.

A psycho will be very wary of wanting to make this arrangement because of the huge number of CCTV cameras at these venues. A simple meeting like this could ensure you are filmed at least 15 or so times.

Anyone who made excuses not to meet in a public place, in the first instance, should be avoided at all costs.

Unfortunately in life you cannot protect yourself 100% against a determined nutball, but some simple precautions like my suggestion and Daz's can help minimise the risk.!tut!

thanks captain obvious

All good points...

I hope this gets well read and the advice is taken on board.

I would like to echo the point about not going alone to these meetings, if at all possible.

No probs SxciiSooky you can call me a twat anytime!
!grin!

Thanks Melody.
Having read back what I wrote I notice that I may well have sounded a tad abrasive but I just think that some models are unaware of some of the safeguards.
Ticking boxes is one thing but reference checking goes beyond that and I have a suspicion that many models don't actually know what to do about them or with them.

I also suspect that many dodgy people are all too aware of this fact as well and will continue to make use of it until we do something to close the loophole.

Reading that men are claiming to be 'involved' with a 'large' website or company seems to make some models not even bother to check anything further at all and this is rather worrying.

Yep, another simple but workable precaution... and one that any reliable producer will (generally) have little issue with.
I say generally because if a shoot is taking place in some remote farmhouse in the Scottish Highlands then there may not be a busy station with coffee-shop available... and sheep are no good as witnesses.

But then, if you know you are shooting in some remote or otherwise unusual place then you should indeed get and thoroughly check references!