"Bronze Age Death cults"/Cockneygeezer
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:45 pm
Sam has got into a real mess on this forum with his views of Islam and Muslims. Given he is only interested in spewing out insults in my direction rather than address the points I raise, I will explain why he is in a mess of his own making.
Sam hates Islam and has described it as a "Bronze Age death cult". Yet he has refused to explain why, if his view is correct the overwhelming number of British Muslims who believe in the Koran have not followed this "death cult" and attacked the British unbelievers in huge numbers.
The problem Slater has is as follows:
1. Either Islam is not a "Bronze Age death cult" and British Muslims for example are overwhelmingly peaceful in their dealings with their non-Muslim neighbours or
2. Islam is a "Bronze Age death cult" and British Muslims are not true believers.
Both views seem nonsensical. What Slater doesn't highlight is that I or anyone else could pick out equally violent passages from Christian beliefs which is your argument, Cockneygeezer. . For example, the Old Testament talks about genocide against the non-believers and the stoning of women to death for adultery etc. etc.
So if the Muslims in this country overwhelmingly keep the peace in a multi-faith country, it is equally true that British Christians keep the peace in a multi-faith country despite the violence and hatred towards other faiths shown in the Old Testament.
Why is that?
The simple answer is education. The majority of British Muslims who work in the NHS etc were invited here in the decades after the World War II when there was a huge manpower/skill shortage. They were the most educated from their own countries. British Christians too are generally well-educated compared to what is often referred to as "the THird World".
In medieval times in England, the power of the church was all consuming and terrifying. In many countries in Asia where there is no education for the overwhelming majority, no welfare system, no jobs, abject poverty and squalor (bit like Liverpool, Argie) etc. religion plays an overwhelming part as it did in Britain in medieval times and it is in those countries where the literal statements in the Koran are taken verbatim whereas the overwhelming majority of British Muslims do not have a similar attitude.
SO why has radical Islam which has a hatred of non-believers developed? It is fed by:
1. Abject poverty, total lack of education and sgualor in many countries.
2. People joining radical Islamist group as a way of getting a regular meal and staying alive.
3. A complete dislocation of some Muslim kids in the west between their faith and the society they find themselves living in. So many of their actions like Syria are motivated initially by the same sort of thoughts that drove British lads to go and fight the Fascists in Spain in the 1930s. And there is a feeling almost that it is an act of rebellion which much older radical Islamists take advantage of with their brainwashing.
4. Seeing innocent Muslims bombed to fuck in a huge range of countries by the West in the last 30 years or so.
5. Muslim governments who pay lip service to more literal versions of Islam in order to help control the population. So while the poor adhere to the various tenets of Islam, the rich and powerful do what they want in private.
So in short, Cockneygeezer your perception is, I think, correct. There is good and bad in all faiths and the reasons why radical Islam has become a problem is outlined above.
So if Slater was less concerned with vomiting insults and more on trying to understand what the Pew Report actually does say in a balanced way i.e. in one of its key tables, religious persecution by individuals and groups is from a population perspective most prevalent in non-Muslim countries, he may be able to take a more rounded view.
Sam hates Islam and has described it as a "Bronze Age death cult". Yet he has refused to explain why, if his view is correct the overwhelming number of British Muslims who believe in the Koran have not followed this "death cult" and attacked the British unbelievers in huge numbers.
The problem Slater has is as follows:
1. Either Islam is not a "Bronze Age death cult" and British Muslims for example are overwhelmingly peaceful in their dealings with their non-Muslim neighbours or
2. Islam is a "Bronze Age death cult" and British Muslims are not true believers.
Both views seem nonsensical. What Slater doesn't highlight is that I or anyone else could pick out equally violent passages from Christian beliefs which is your argument, Cockneygeezer. . For example, the Old Testament talks about genocide against the non-believers and the stoning of women to death for adultery etc. etc.
So if the Muslims in this country overwhelmingly keep the peace in a multi-faith country, it is equally true that British Christians keep the peace in a multi-faith country despite the violence and hatred towards other faiths shown in the Old Testament.
Why is that?
The simple answer is education. The majority of British Muslims who work in the NHS etc were invited here in the decades after the World War II when there was a huge manpower/skill shortage. They were the most educated from their own countries. British Christians too are generally well-educated compared to what is often referred to as "the THird World".
In medieval times in England, the power of the church was all consuming and terrifying. In many countries in Asia where there is no education for the overwhelming majority, no welfare system, no jobs, abject poverty and squalor (bit like Liverpool, Argie) etc. religion plays an overwhelming part as it did in Britain in medieval times and it is in those countries where the literal statements in the Koran are taken verbatim whereas the overwhelming majority of British Muslims do not have a similar attitude.
SO why has radical Islam which has a hatred of non-believers developed? It is fed by:
1. Abject poverty, total lack of education and sgualor in many countries.
2. People joining radical Islamist group as a way of getting a regular meal and staying alive.
3. A complete dislocation of some Muslim kids in the west between their faith and the society they find themselves living in. So many of their actions like Syria are motivated initially by the same sort of thoughts that drove British lads to go and fight the Fascists in Spain in the 1930s. And there is a feeling almost that it is an act of rebellion which much older radical Islamists take advantage of with their brainwashing.
4. Seeing innocent Muslims bombed to fuck in a huge range of countries by the West in the last 30 years or so.
5. Muslim governments who pay lip service to more literal versions of Islam in order to help control the population. So while the poor adhere to the various tenets of Islam, the rich and powerful do what they want in private.
So in short, Cockneygeezer your perception is, I think, correct. There is good and bad in all faiths and the reasons why radical Islam has become a problem is outlined above.
So if Slater was less concerned with vomiting insults and more on trying to understand what the Pew Report actually does say in a balanced way i.e. in one of its key tables, religious persecution by individuals and groups is from a population perspective most prevalent in non-Muslim countries, he may be able to take a more rounded view.