Lying to the Benefits people...

[max_tranmere]

I know someone who is on Benefit because of depression, he was getting Incapacity and now gets Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). He doesn't have to sign-on though, it is established that he will get it for an indefinate period as he is not able to work. He also gets Disability Living Allowance (DLA) and a third Benefit called something like Extreme Disability Premium, or something like that. He goes to my local pub and I saw him earlier. His depression is quite serious and it cost him his marriage, he has kids and only sees them occasionally now. He was telling me that if you get middle-rate DLA you qualify for the third Benefit, but if you get lower-rate DLA you don't. He was recently reassessed and they said that because he doesn't have someone who cares for him he only deserves low-level DLA, therefore he's not only now going to get less DLA but the third Benefit will go completely. His money has been slashed by over ?100 a week in total.

What interests me is how easy it would have been to just bullshit about it. He is an honest guy and did not, but they phoned him after he submitted a form where he appealed against their decision to move him down from middle-rate DLA to the lower-rate DLA. He said the guy on the phone said he was processing the appeal that day and asked 'do you have a carer?'. He said he didn't and could manage by himself. It seems they would not have asked for evidence if he had said he DID have a carer, just believed him, therefore he would have been retained at middle-rate DLA and would have kept the third Benefit too. I was walking home thinking about all he'd said and it seems to me that if he'd just said he has a relative come round to assist him because his depression is so bad he can't manage on his own, then that would have been enough for the Department - or if he'd said he needs a chaperone to go with him to the shops as he feels so uneasy in crowded supermarkets that he can't go there on his own, then that would have satisfied them. None of this would have been true but it would have swung it with the Department and prevented his money being cut as it now has been.

Some people are too honest for their own good. I would probably have done what he did if I was in his shoes as I'm honest too. This is all something I'm not familiar with as I have a full-time job, but it made me think that there are bound to be lots of people claiming Benefit who DO exaggerate their situation in order to get more money as it seems so easy to be able to. A question to my fellow forumites: would you have pretended you had some assistance from another person, therefore enabling yourself to qualify for the middle-rate DLA, thus getting more DLA and also enabling yourself to get the third Benefit too? Or would you be honest like he was and end up with less cash as a result? It seems so easy to just fib a bit, they will believe you, and you'll be better off. Just saying a relative pops round three times a week to assist you, they apparently don't ask for proof of this just believe you, is enough.

I would be inclined to do what he did, but then if you're going to be about ?100 down each week then it might be tempting to fib a bit. I would like to think I'd be honest though. It's a tricky one.

[Arginald Valleywater]

Hi Max,

I deal with people like this for a living. He needs to got to his local law centre, CAB or even branch of MIND for some advice. If he is a social housing tenant he should be able to get help off their benefits advisers or equally his local council should have a benefits advice centre.

I know my colleague, who represents people at ATOS (or A Tosser as my GP calls it) is finding the assessments much tougher and more biased towards those with physical disabilities.

[Cuntybollocks]

but it made me think that there are bound to be lots of people claiming Benefit who DO exaggerate their situation in order to get more money as it seems so easy to be able to.

Jeez do you think?

[max_tranmere]

He could get advice from those sources but he would have to pretend his
situation is worse than it is in order to get more money. He is inclined to tell the
truth, and therefore will only continue to get what he's now been told he'll be
getting. Some people will lie and exaggerate, as I said at the top, and get more
cash as a result. He is honest therefore will get less. It's an issue of one's own
conscience and being honest often has negative effects on you - as he's
discovering.

[max_tranmere]

Afraid so. Lots of people get their pockets lined by bullshitting. The honest in
society, who are on Benefit like this person is, get less money. Whoever said
"honesty is the best policy" was right from a moral standpoint but wrong when
it comes to the rewards it will, or won't, bring. I still think it's right to be
honest though.

[sparky]

Sad but true many people are getting benefits they shouldn't by being economical with the truth.
A lady who lives in the same block of flats as one of my aunt's openly brags about the benefits she gets and added ' You need to get a good social worker like mine '

[cockneygeezer2009]

Same thing happens with the Tax people. Is everybody 100% honest about their tax? Lying about your tax situation puts extra money in tax dodgers pockets too.

[fatmick]

Cockneygeezer I agree with you there. The vast majority of us lie and cheat on many levels but in some simple minds it is allowable if you are in the right demographic...

[Gentleman]

You're correct about the right demographic after all you can employ accounts to help you break the law and it can even be considered avoidance so you're not doing any wrong.

[max_tranmere]

I heard once that there are companies you can get to help you fill out the
Disability Living Allowance (DLA) form, they tell you what to say, and it will be certain
you will be awarded the money. I heard of someone who was awarded DLA for
a couple of years and was then awarded it 'indefinately'. They can sit back
and chill-out, even if their circumstances change they will get the money for
years. I feel sorry for people with difficulties, and for those people who are able but
can not get a job, but those doing it as a lifestyle choice I have little time for - and
there are people like that in society.