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This guy should be punished, or at the very least have his career prospects reduced, if his hands have been wandering as much as these women claim, but I find it odd how these people, who are total nobodies, have became well known in recent days over this - and that will probably help advance them up the career ladder, and in other areas of life.

I remember when Andrew Gilligan went from being a minor reporter on the BBC Today programme to being a big name following his claim that the Blair Government had 'sexed up' the Iraq dossier on weapons of mass destruction. This didn't get him much attention or career advancement, but the fact Dr David Kelly killed himself - over what Gilligan started - did. Gilligan was then in the limelight, more in an infamous way than famous way, but it still helped him. He ended up with his own column in a number of newspapers and ended up being interviewed, regularly, about all kinds of things to do with politics and current affairs, on numerous news programmes, over a long period of time. It basically made him a big name. He is now the Mayor of London's 'Cycling Commissioner'! - figure that one out! - and is on TV regularly. His career, and name, really took off after the sad event which was the death of David Kelly.

So bit-part people in events, be them fame or infamy type things, seem to advance, progress, and get their pockets lined. One or two of these women who Rennard apparently groped will end up as regular commentators on TV shows, regular interviewee's, columnists in Sunday papers, and get their photos taken and printed in magazines like proper stars - and all because a Peer few had heard of apparently fondled them.

It's very odd what has to happen to a person these days to help them advance in life. These women were touring the news studios and being interviewed by everyone they could get to interview them over the last few days. Don't people think it is odd that fame and career advancement can be obtained in this way (the examples of Andrew Gilligan and the Rennard women)? Lord Rennard looks like a public school housemaster anyway, so I'm surprised he's not groping young boys.

In the words of one commentator today, this saga makes the Lib Dems look as if they couldn't run a bath. It's a complete cock-up.

Having said that Max, your take is a bit skewed on this.

" but I find it odd how these people, who are total nobodies, have became well known in recent days over this - and that will probably help advance them up the career ladder, and in other areas of life. "

I don't think allegedly getting touched up by Lord Rennard is that good a career move. As Campaign Manager and Chief Executive of the Lib Dems, the guy has been the most powerful Lib Dem for umpteen years.

This saga has been going on for well over a decade and a common theme seemed to have emerged. The women concerned had made complaints in some cases years ago but nothing was done about them by the Lib Dem hierarchy. As far as I am aware none of this appeared in the media until very recently so you can hardly accuse the women of being self-publicists.

Cathy Newman of CHannel 4 broke the news last year. The clip from the programme will give you a better understanding. A number of women on the programme, far from wanting to draw attention to themselves, wouldn't even face the cameras, they were that concerned about what the reaction might be, presumably fear of lawsuits etc.



The clip makes clear that the main reason the two women have gone public is that they are totally pissed off with the way that until recently, their complaints have just been swept under the carpet and they can't even get an apology from Rennard. THe reason they have appeared on screen is not particularly because they have been touting themselves around, more a question of there is now a major split in the party and the media obviously want to have quotes from two of the many women who appear to have made complaints. IN addition what has also pissed them off is that Rennard had apparently "resigned for ill-health" but of late there was talk of him becoming much more involved with the Lib Dems again.

As for Gilligan, isn't he Boris Johnson's Cycling COmmissioner? Hardly a stellar role, Max?

"This guy should be punished, or at the very least have his career prospects reduced, if his hands have been wandering as much as these women claim,"

No punishment because of lack of evidence that would stand up in a criminal trial or tribunal.

"But I find it odd how these people, who are total nobodies, have became well known in recent days over this"

Becoming well known can happen to anybody for a large number of reasons. I.E. Your child getting murdered, having an affair with a politician, being on big brother, winning the lottery, making silly offensive public statements and so on.

I think Rennard will be, at the very minimum, marginalised and have his power base reduced as a result of all the coverage this has got. These women will at the very least stay where they are or possibly be promoted as a way of the party trying its best to show they care about them and have not ignored the claims they've made. In terms of them becoming prolific in wider society, I can see that happening. I can certainly see them being interviewed on the Sunday Politics, Newsnight, and similar type shows - on quite a regular basis - over the coming months and years on issues to do with politics and currents affairs. They will be seem as spokespeople who should be listened to. Keep an eye on your TV screen and also at who the new columnists are in certain newspapers, over the coming period, and you'll see these women will be regarded as political big-hitters from now on, when previously they were complete nobodies.

I agree that the Lib Dems have cocked this all up, their internal structure seems very disorganised. One commenter said that looking at the 'map' of how the Lib Dems are organised is like looking at a plate of spaghetti - numerous departments and senior figures are associated with each other in a very missed up way and people often don't have links to senior figures, if they have a gripe, because of the odd internal processes. I suspect Nick Clegg will reorganise the party's internal structure after this - but mainly because of the bad publicity it has got, rather than because he might personally feel there is a need to do it.

I'm aware that it was Cathy Newman at Channel 4 News who broke the story, they have done a lot of coverage of it in recent times. I watch Channel 4 News often. It never went beyond their programme for a while though, and it is only in recent days that other news programmes, and also the print press, have started to run with the story aswell. If these women thought the only way to get justice was to talk to as many news programmes as possible then that is fine as it will increase their chances of getting justice. Previously though just speaking to one network would have been enough because the other networks would hear about it and run the clip. It surprises me why, after Channel 4 news covered it a lot, the other networks didn't pick it up straight away as a story. I'm sure they've also appeared on those magazine type shows that appear at breakfast time and during the day and talked about all this on those shows too. They could have spoken to three or four journalists/presenters and that would have been sufficient, rather than talk to absolutely everybody and become the biggest story in the land.

Andrew Gilligan certainly benefited from being part of the reporting which led to the death of David Kelly. He was a b-list journalist, if that, previously, then he was a big name afterwards - and still is. He would be interviewed, in a consultancy type capacity, on programmes like This Week and on news shows like he was a big person who should be listened to. He also got a column in a couple of newspapers. I was amazed to hear he is now Boris's Cycling Commissioner, I discovered this a few weeks ago. I'm not sure what qualification he has to do that - other than ride a bike to work, but loads of people do that. He is now featured on the London news for that role and he presumably gets a large salary for the job too.

People can certainly be thrust into the limelight because of something occurring with them that will inevitably get coverage, but its the amount this has got and the fact it will certainly see them being regarded by news editors as political voices who deserve to be interviewed regularly on political matters that I find odd. If this had all got a certain amount of coverage, rather than being the biggest story in the land for a few days - which it has been - and it didn't make them into bigger names than they are, then that would be ok. As I've said above we will see a lot more of these women on TV political shows in months and years to come because of all of this.

"In terms of them becoming prolific in wider society, I can see that happening. I can certainly see them being interviewed on the Sunday Politics, Newsnight, and similar type shows - on quite a regular basis - over the coming months and years on issues to do with politics and currents affairs."

Why? Have you any evidence of others who have made complaints about sexual touching up and ended up being interviewed on a regular basis on other matters? Or does being touched up, make you more knowledgeable about politics or the area in which you work? None of the women concerned have been interviewed on anything other than their accusations.

"It never went beyond their programme for a while though, and it is only in recent days that other news programmes, and also the print press, have started to run with the story aswell. If these women thought the only way to get justice was to talk to as many news programmes as possible then that is fine as it will increase their chances of getting justice. Previously though just speaking to one network would have been enough because the other networks would hear about it and run the clip. It surprises me why, after Channel 4 news covered it a lot, the other networks didn't pick it up straight away as a story."

This is wrong. The Channel 4 story came out in Feb 2013. THe media did pick up on it and it was very much in the news alongside the Eastleigh by election resulting from Chris Huhne's resignation.

"does being touched up, make you more knowledgeable about politics or the area in which you work?"

No. It just makes their future appearances on This Week and the Sunday Politics even more ridiculous.

"None of the women concerned have been interviewed on anything other than their accusations."

Yet.

I've hot heard of anyone else complaining about being touched that has led to then becoming a bigger name in society, but you are focusing on the specifics of their complaints here - I'm talking about the fact they've got nationwide coverage for something, whatever that might be, and how that usually leads to the person staying in the media spotlight. People like Stephen Pound, Louise Mensch, Tony Benn, and others, are examples of b-lister politicans who became a-listers solely because editors and sub-editors on news programmes thought they ought to be - when it was not warranted. Become prolific, have your name in lights for whatever the reason, and that will normally result in you staying in the limelight. As I said, watch how much we will see these women over the coming months and years. I'm certain they wont just disappear.

""None of the women concerned have been interviewed on anything other than their accusations."

Yet.

Max, it has been going on a year in terms of two of Rennard's accusers appearing on television.

"Tony Benn, and others, are examples of b-lister politicans who became a-listers solely because editors and sub-editors on news programmes thought they ought to be "

Well he has been Secretary of State in a Labour government and active in politics ever since. Hardly on a par with a political adviser who has complained about being touched up, Max.

"As I've said above we will see a lot more of these women on TV political shows in months and years to come because of all of this."

We shall see. Remind me of this post in 5 years time then.