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Embarassing ?

complete madness... you either fight total war or not at all.... you can't do it in between...

But as the UK loves trying to please everyone, apart from its own people, this is what you can expect...

"you either fight total war or not at all".

Now that's the defence the Nazis should have used at Nuremberg.

I'm not embarrassed. These things are horrible and unfortunate but when you count the number of soldiers we've had there, for the amount of time we did, working in the circumstances they had to, you're not going to get every soldier in ever scenario pass with flying colours.

This isn't a defence of what they did, just an objective assessment. How many children in care, over that same period of time, have been abused, for instance? In one year 88 pupils were expelled from school, in Southampton, and had a suspension rate of 7.2%. Should we be 'embarrassed' at the care system or our youth because of those figures? 200 cases or wrongful detainment and/or torture is spread over 8+ years and 120,000 troops is most likely what's to be expected when you take into account the few inevitable bad eggs. Of course, in an ideal world it would be 'zero'......and there's nothing wrong with aiming for perfection, but still. Saddam probably rounded up, wrongfully detained and tortured more than 200 victims per month, with it being officially accepted/ordered/expected - victims who wouldn't have had the privilege of their stories being heard, let alone getting any sort of justice.

I think it's important that we're seen by the Iraqis to own up to our mistakes and the people responsible held up to account.....with victims fairly compensated. We should be proud that we are doing this, rather than being embarrassed.

If we'd have ignored these victims when the evidence was so damning: then I'd have been embarrassed.

So anone with a relative who died during a conflict with British forces would be entitled to blood money?

E.g civilians during ww2?

[quote]So anone with a relative who died during a conflict with British forces would be entitled to blood money?

E.g civilians during ww2?[/quote]

I think Jonone was asking if anyone was embarrassed these wrongful detainments and torture sessions were carried out at all, not if we're embarrassed we're compensating the victims.

Don't tell me you think wrongfully imprisoned and tortured people don't deserve compensation for what they've had to go through?

War is hell and unfortunately its something that we have forgotten, regarding torture etc.. It's not a problem to me as you never know how many people it has or will go onto save and given a choice between coalition or ragheads I know which I would choose.

Firstly, most, if not all of these people were innocent. Torturing innocent people won't save anybody because, being innocent, won't have any information to give.

Secondly, it has been proven over and over again that people under torture will say almost anything to make it stop and that most information gained is a complete waste of everyone's time.

One question: If some 'ragheads' kidnapped you and your loved ones, thinking you were somebody else, tortured you all and were subsequently caught, you wouldn't seek compensation for everything you'd been through?

Nothing gentle, or gentlemanly about you, is there?

Not as embarrassing as the British government's involvement in a war in which over a 100,000 innocent Iraqis were killed and entire villages destroyed by the Allies, not forgetting the deaths of our own troops.

And for what reason? A totally, erroneous claim that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that Nato forces stationed in that part of the world were under "imminent" danger of attack.

Ok then... so how do you fight a war??? tip toe and fanny around... or go in cause hell get results & respect then move on?