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Colleagues were chatting about the sad situation in Afghanistan... finally we all agreed the following choices are the only two left to be made...

1. Pull out tomorrow and leave them too each other...

2. Fight total war, burn down villages etc. treat them how the Nazi's did in Russia.

Sad but we couldn't think of a third way??

Comments as usual, welcome, especially from any "do gooders" who think we are doing a good job!!
( my choice is number 1)

The war is not unwinnable, however it would take 50 odd years and many thousands of lives to win, would it be worth it, not in your opinion.

Afghanistan was once an extremely proud country with an amazing history, its civilization dates back many 1000s of year BC, they were some of the first traders and had big market towns that people would travel from all countries to visit.

In more recent times before and after the Russians and before the Taliban women were educated and cities thrived. In many ways this is what makes the situation worse, there is still a huge section of society (women) that is educated, but unable to do anything.

The question of whether we should be there or not should be asked to Afghan people, unfortunately they can't answer, their government that we installed says they want help to be able to govern themselves, but we know these aren't the voices of the people, what does the common Afghan man or woman want? I guess to be able to carry on their way of life in peace, which wont happen with us there and wont happen with the Taliban there.

If I was in charge I would split Afghanistan into sections and grade each section by how dangerous they are. I would concentrate on making the safest places not just safe, but give them good sewers, communications, markets for trade etc, I know this is what is mean't to be happening, but it just has not, even the safest regions have not had the reconstruction work done that was promised.

You cant split the country - this would make it worse. You have to treat is as a whole and work through itm just now we dont have enough on the ground to win - we would need at least ten times what we have out there to begin with and we would need to bring the country up and modernise it - ensure that the population saw the benefits of being away from the taliban. By giving people money and opportunity and education you would reduce and remove the taliban influence - a network of people that are using the natural resources in the country to grow drugs and make money... they dont want this stopped and will fight like mad to do so. No get in there and destroy these farms and if required kill the enemy.

it is winable but would need a hell of a lot of involvement.

Pulling out isnt the answer we pull out it will be like stopping antibiotics before the course has been completed it will just come back and more powerful than what it was like before.

"Fight total war, burn down villages etc. treat them how the Nazi's did in Russia."

Two points:

1. The Nazis got beat in Russia.

2. The Russians tried the heavy, heavy approach. They lost 15,000 men.

Pulling out in 2014 as planned looks to be the option to take.

Pulling out today would be the finest option. It would save us lives and billions in hard earned tax payers money.

Pull em out and nuke the place - simples !

Putting aside Mr Wells`s desire to nuke a foreign country, or act like
the Nazis in Russia, I must disagree with Zorro....
The war as it is being fought Zorro is unwinnable, now or 50 years from
now. It is a fucking mess at all levels.
Blitzkrieg - wiping out populations - is the dumb approach to warfare; it
instills fear - and everlasting hatred. Afghans are taught at birth to distrust
their neighbours, to honour only their family, and totally despise all
foreigners, especially infidels (that includes Indian Hindus, Sikhs (they hate
them for taking Peshawar in the 19th century and the Koh-i-nor Diamond),
never mind Westerners).
Historically they have been governed only by warlords and strong men. The
greatest of these, the Amir Abdur Rahman, once invited his British doctor
to eat ice cream with him while he watched two men being skinned alive !!
He put the fear of God into his people, killed religious leaders with his bare
hands if they got uppity. That is the kind of ruler the Afghans respect and
they only respected him because he was one of them, an Afghan by birth.
We all know how these men who live to fight and also carry out revenge
feuds, fought us to a standstill in three wars already, also kicking Russia in
the balls !!
Get out, get out, get out. Leave them to settle their own feuds. A tough guy
of sorts will emerge, but it is their domestic problem, not the West`s.
Enough with this bloody meddling !!
As for Al Quaeda - they are in the hills of Pakistan, the deserts of the Sudan,
Yemen and other places but not Afghanistan.

Totally correct.

One of the major problems was that the Americans had no historical knowledge of Afganistan or its inhabs, the mass of knowledge the British Army had gained over 150+ years was lost and then forgotton after 1947, the politics and tribal affairs of Afganistan was never fully understood by any Westminster Goverment from 1830 to this present day. The White House follows the old British habit of paying a subsity to the Afgan Goverment (for this read 'bribe to Ministers').

The Americans had little choice but to do what they did after they ID'd that this was now the home and power base of Bin Laden. We also were given little choice but to go in with them, but there has been so great a mission creep that the objectives we face now are a world apart from what we faced 10 years ago.

On the whole the Afgans dislike and distrust each other, if your from a different tribe then they will nore than likley hate you due to some long forgotton slite or feud, in this they are as uncivilised as any tribe in Africa with similar tribal hatreds.

IF THEY CAN HATE EACH OTHER SO MUCH THEN WE HAVE NO CHANCE.

It makes no differance if we pull up stakes tomorrow or skuttle off home in 2014 as we are unlikley to ever hear the end of it.

To end this I will just add this this amusing thought, imagine that the Afgans, from all sides, plus the participating Western Goverments try to solve this with a South African style 'Peace and Reconciliation Commission', that could never happen in a country that have no words for Sorry or Forgive