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I was wondering what the wise elders of BGAFD thought about the demands by lesbians & gays to be married in the sight of God, at the Church of their choice? I see no vicar of priest will be, "Punished" for disallowing these marriages. However, I wonder how long it will be before Peter Tatchell will be seen leading a furious mob of gays and lesbians, baying for the blood of hapless vicars who have barred these marriages from their churches?

There are two parts to this from what I'm aware. There's the choice of having a civil marriage rather than a partnership, and then there's the issue of same-sex couples being allowed to be married in religious buildings.

As to the former, it is obviously right that a gay couple should be considered 'married' just like heterosexual couples are. It seems crazy that they can have all the same rights as a married couple but not allowed to call themselves 'married' or have a marriage ceremony. We should all be equal under law.

Now the second point is a little trickier, but I'll do my best to convey my thoughts.

Firstly, I do not think we should force churches to marry same-sex couples. If they're private places of worship they should be able to have their own rules within those establishments. For a start if we force vicars to marry gay couples we should force imams and rabbis too. The tricky bit is we have an official, established church in the C of E. Our taxes go to this establishment and we have unelected representatives in the House of Lords. This means they should fall under the same rules as schools, hospitals, the police, military and other public services. They cannot discriminate on ethnicity, gender, sexuality etc.

I say if any religious order wants to remain part of the establishment it must be forced to comply with law. If it wants it's own discriminatory rules then it should stop taking tax payers money and find it's own money like other smaller churches and religions do.

So by that account I'd rather have the church decide if it wants to marry gay couples, stop our taxes going to it, make IT pay taxes on what it earns, kick all religious schooling in the head and throw the unelected Bishops out of places of power that rule on how we live our lives.

Like the change with marrying divorcees, my guess is that without public financial support they'll soon change their mind on marrying same-sex couples if only for the money it will bring in.

I am an atheist so no religious view but same sex marriage is plain wrong, as is gay and lesbian couples adopting or worse buying a kid a la Elton J and his vile toyboy. Society is fucked up enough without kids getting confused by gender roles before nursery.

[quote]same sex marriage is plain wrong, as is gay and lesbian couples adopting[/quote]

Please explain why.

[quote]or worse buying a kid a la Elton J and his vile toyboy.[/quote]

I share your distaste on 'buying' children - at least in part. Another side of me thinks that as long as the child's welfare has improved it's ok, though so I've no definite views really. I'd like to know why you think Elton John's partner is 'vile' though. Do you know something about him I don't?

[quote]Society is fucked up enough without kids getting confused by gender roles before nursery.[/quote]

I don't see how children would be aversely affected by same-sex parenting. From memory I cannot remember paying much attention to the actual sex of my mum and dad. One was mum and one was dad. That was it.

Sam, re your "I don't see how children would be aversely affected by same-sex parenting. From memory I cannot remember paying much attention to the actual sex of my mum and dad. One was mum and one was dad. That was it"can you imagine what will happen when a kid has 2 mothers or 2 fathers turn up at parents night ?It's got to be a recipe for disaster. Not everybody has your cosmopolitan views.

"I don't see how children would be aversely affected by same-sex parenting. From memory I cannot remember paying much attention to the actual sex of my mum and dad. One was mum and one was dad. That was it."

Even by your standards that's utter utter bollock's, you are saying you didn't notice your dad had a cock!or your Mother had tit's, are you drunk?

Are you getting mixed up with what physical differences I saw in my mum and dad and being aware of the supposed importance of their gender?

Yes. Once upon a time my only objection to same-sex adoption (different to same-sex marriage btw) was the inevitable cruelty over children. But then again once upon a time kids were picked on who had parents who'd divorced.....or who's mum was fat. I remember a kid when I was about 5-6 who got picked on for having a mum that looked old. "You're mum's a witch!", we used to say.

Kids will pick up on any difference or unusual circumstance, but they learn as they get older. Especially if it becomes more common, like divorced parents, or growing up in a single-parent environment.

Sam. I don't know the percentages,but kids will be kids. I would be willing to bet that more kids have fat parents than gay parents. Fat parents can go on a diet need I say more.

"Firstly, I do not think we should force churches to marry same-sex couples. If they're private places of worship they should be able to have their own rules within those establishments."

Agreed. On the rest of this thread, it would appear there's none so uptight and prejudiced about different types of sexuality than heterosexual porn folk.

The very folk of course who awhile back would have been almost universally pilloried as "vile" , weird and one of the dirty mac brigade.