The rise of Fascism in the UK.

[jimslip]

I'm wondering if anyone else sees the massive political vacuum that is being created in this country. On the one hand we have New Labour who created a society that benefits only their interest group and on the other, The Tories who have renaged on all their election promises. ?Billions of profits being taken out of the UK, bankers bonuses all left alone, whilst they go after the little guys who are fiddling their bennys. Increasing the pension age to God know what to save money. It's the same old fucking story, election after election. One bunch of tossers is replaced by another.

It is my opinion that against this background of perceived incompetance and betrayal of voters, a charismatic Fascist could appear out of nowhere and make a real impact on politics. No, not the BNP. They are as stuck in another time, as are the other parties. Who on Earth is going to vote for a bunch of bald headed thugs in bomber jackets? The stupid dumb asses, still droning on about immigrants being the root of all evil. What about our own indiginous scumbags?

But now imagine a new BNP, maybe called, "The Rational Socialist Party", led by a charismatic person (Not a midget) with it's policies modernised and sanitised for a modern voter. Imagine, no bald heads, no bomber jackets, no sharp suits, only policies that ring a bell with the electorate. Yes, dealing with asylum seekers and benefits cheats BUT also being seen to smash the tax loopholes for the rich. Placing super tax of 70% on bankers bonuses, which are placed into funds for community projects. Tax evadors inprisoned and made to do hard labour. Not just talking about law and order, but sending in armoured cars and armed police to round up and intern anti social elements on estates. Changing the Criminal Justice system to favour the victim of crime, not the perpetrator. Stating that anyone carrying a weapon, has the intention to commit a violent act, simply by virtue of carrying it and is given a mandatory prison sentence. Creating local incarceration centres near city centres where drunks and anti social yobs could be cleared off the streets and held until sober so local folk could once more walk the streets without being vomited on and much, much more.

Underneath these populist plans would be the intention of setting up a totalitarian state in the long term. In the meantime the electorate would be seduced by the populist policies being put into place.

Does anyone else think that such a thing could happen in the future?

[wayne]

No..simply because the main parties would group themselves to stop it, not for any other reason than self intrest to preserve their dirty grip on power.

look what happens when the BNP got a councillor areas that are ignored until this point all of a sudden become of intrset to the parties or the BNP councillor is squeezed out by all the other coucillors altohugh elected by the people.

I now always vote BNP if given the chance or spoil my ballot paper as this si my only way my voter makes any impact due to where i live.

I would love for Jims idea to happen as frankly thats the only way there would be any change in tihs nation.

[David Johnson]

"On the one hand we have New Labour who created a society that benefits only their interest group"

Who exactly are New Labour's "interest group"?

Cheers
D

[max_tranmere]

I doubt this will ever happen, most Governments are the same they just have a differnt name and colour. Radical peiople aren't welcome, if they were on the rise they would be taken to Court to try and ruin them, or sued out of existance (like the Labour party, using publc money, tried to do to the BNP). It takes generations for a party to go from concept to being big enough to be in Government, and by then the country will largely have been ruined by the out-of-touch dickheads in power. Besides, we have lost so much of our powers to Europe now. UK RIP.

[jimslip]

Kindly do not divert this topic from the question I posed, to talk about sodding New Bloody Labour!!!!furious! but just for you, Labours "Interest groups" are, 1/ The very rich, 2/ Public sector workers and especially all the fat cat leeches that control them, 3/ Labour MP's, 4/ The US gorvernment.

Tory interest groups are, 1/ The very rich and they pretend to benefit those in the private sector, Tory MP's and of course, the US government.

[jimslip]

Oh, I forgot one of New labour's interest groups, 5/ Anyone who wishes to claim any kind of benefit for any kind of reason or under any kind of pretext.

Anyway, while I'm talking bollocks about New Labour, I expect somewhere, there are plans afoot for at least starting a palatable Fascist party, which if done correctly, could fleece New Labour of millions of it's voters, in fact probably many more than who would desert the Tories.

[David Johnson]

Good post. I genuinely think that this is an interesting question. I suspect the answer to this question explains why there has been little difference in inequality between rich and poor in this country for the last 30 years whoever has been in power.

You will no doubt be glad to hear that I will post without mentioning Labour!!

The party you are describing has a mix of policies which could be termed both left wing (70% bankers bonuses, cracking down on tax evasion etc) and right wing measures (crackdown on yobs, immigrations, increasing sentences, hammering benefit cheats etc etc). In fact the forerunners of fascism, the National Syndicalist Movement in Italy started off with a mix of left and right wing ideas, but increasingly in the 20's and 30's under the likes of Hitler right wing ideas took complete control of Fascist groups.

I can see your party getting a lot of support but as Cleggie has found there is one thing getting support before an election, entirely another situation in terms of making it happen in power.

With your group I suspect even if they got into power, there would be a huge outflow of capital ie. namely rich individuals, corporate, multinational companies relocating overseas a.s.a.p having moved their wealth to foreign banks. We have already seen this happen but your party would see a huge acceleration as companies move to a more friendly tax environment.

Obviously the government could try shooting the capitalists who try to relocate but this is generally not very good for business confidence. So there would probably be a complete collapse in the economy.

The result would be similar to what happened in the 20's and 30's i.e. the Fascist party dropped the left wing components of their policy whilst cracking down on those areas with policies which are most often deemed right wing. As the economy slumped, there would be protests against the government which would then result in a crackdown etc etc.

As the music hall song goes "It's the rich what gets the money. It's the poor what gets the blame"

Has it ever been different?

Cheers
D

[jimslip]

Here's a question that I pose to those that know their history........that's you Mr Thring or maybe you David?

Has there ever been an ultra right wing political party in the World that has been able to bring about radical authoritarian reforms that deal with the, "Problems" on Left and Right, which HASN'T isolated and then persecuted a minority?

If not, then why not? I believe it would be possible to run a country based on what some would call "Reasonable"principles of law and order and fair play. For example it would be reasonable to expect people NOT to cheat on their benefits, so if they do, why not make their life a misery? Likewise it is reasonable that companies pay their "Fair" share of tax and if they don't, the directors are rounded up and imprisoned? It is "Reasonable" that folk should be able to live and go where they like as long as they behave in a, "Reasonable" manner to others. If they do not, they are dealt with, "Robustly!" Another example is that it would be "Unreasonable if groups, companies, organisations, religious groups etc, attempted to gain power and influence over and above that was considered reasonable. So that Tesco attempting to open a store in a small community where local shops would be put out of business, would be, "Persuaded" to rethink their plans.

I would think that the "Rational Socialist Party" would have to build large, "Self governing" internment camps for the 10's thousands of offenders that would be rounded up in the early years. Those inside would have to earn their release.

However, I would expect in time, offences would rapidly decrease as people realised that the Country expects them simply to behave in a "Reasonable" manner or they will suffer the consequences.

I wonder if things continue as they are, just how many actual voters, (Not intellectuals) would welcome measures like these? Afer all, if you are, "Reasonable" you'd have nothing to fear!

I think Fascists just like all other political parties are crippled by their narrow ideologies. They can't see the bigger picture. Fascists always get needlessly diverted by their natural need to bully and persecute minorities.

By the way this is merely a hypothetical question, I'm not actually thinking of starting such a party! lol

[jimslip]

Just a quick word about the RSP's, "Self governing interment camps". In such an environment, there would be a natural tendency for the scum of society to take over and impose their rule on their fellow inmates. In the light of this, "The Rule of Reasonableness" would have to be brutally enforced and those that appeared to be continually subverting this principle would have to be, "Dealt with" appropriately as the system would collapse and the camps would merely fester and school criminality. I would suggest the fellow inmates could decide the punishment whatever it may be and the camp authorities would enforce it.

[David Johnson]

"Has there ever been an ultra right wing political party in the World that has been able to bring about radical authoritarian reforms that deal with the, "Problems" on Left and Right, which HASN'T isolated and then persecuted a minority?"

This is a very difficult question to answer because of the nature of the terms "left" and "right". You only have to look at this forum to realise that one person's "right" is another person's "left" and vice versa. Centrist parties would try to argue that they are a mix of left and right and I suppose in this country, Lib Dems, New Labour and Tories under Cameron would probably all describe themselves as that, but no way would any Centrist party follow all the policies in your original post.

I suspect the answer to your question is no because the views underpinning the left and right are contradictory. Therefore it doesnt make sense to have a party encapsulating all the policies you outline. This extract from Wikipedia sums it up quite well.

"The main factor dividing left and right in Western Europe is class. Those on the Left seek social justice through redistributive social and economic intervention by the state. Those on the Right defend private property and capitalism."

You finished with
"By the way this is merely a hypothetical question, I'm not actually thinking of starting such a party! lol"

Well, you already have one follower in Wayne, Jimbo. Get on Twitter and you could have an army ready to march on Westminster by the weekend!

Cheers
D