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I've lost count of the number of times I have heard the Lib Dem Con coalition members talking about the student fees hike and stating that "our plans are very progressive" in a largely robotic way.

Given that:

1. The yearly cost for student fees has at the very least doubled and more likely tripled.
2. Your average student will leave with a debt of around ?40-?45K.
3. There has been an 80% cut in state funding to universities which the government has passed on to students instead.
4. The interest rate charged on the loan is much higher than the current rate charged.
5. 15 University Chancellors wrote to that socialist organ, the Daily Telegraph stating "?In spite of claims that monthly repayments will be lower than at present, the graduates of the future will repay for much longer. In many cases, they will still not have repaid their loans in full after 30 years.?
6. The Institute of Fiscal Studies warned that students from the poorest backgrounds would be charged ?significantly more? for a degree under the reforms.
7. Half the Lib Dems didnt even vote for VInce Cable's own bill. In fact last week it looked as if VInce Cable wasnt going to vote for his own bill

can any forumite explain to me how this hike in student fees is "very progressive".

Cheers
D

Theres no such thing as a free lunch,so bloody what students will have to pay a bit more for their humanities degree the price of everything goes up,fuel,utilities,food,.perhaps degrees like engineering + sciences, more wealth creating jobs should be free.

I would hazard that most bankers have degrees in maths, economics, maybe physics rather than film studies, literature and psychology. They've been spectacularly uncreative where wealth (other than their own) is concerned.

I can't. And I'm bloody glad my two have now finished uni, even with the debts they have accumulated.

All but the top 30 Universities in UK,should be shut down.That includes the so called 'new' ones,that give degrees in subjects that are no use to graduates(eg underwater knitting,media studies,surf science,golf course management etc).Those that remain open should require proper grades of entrance for their undergrads.Some Unis already set their own exams,rather than relying on the (severely) dumbed down,so called A levels,used now.

"so bloody what students will have to pay a bit more for their humanities degree the price of everything goes up,fuel,utilities,food,."

If you had decided to get a mortgage and found out that mortgage rates had gone up in one fell swoop so that your debt would be tripled, I doubt if you would be quite so sanguine about it.

Cheers
D

Fact

too many students doing utterly pointless degrees in subjects noone has ever heard of whilst claiming its 'their right', who will then leave Uni and discover that noones wants to touch them because their degree isn't worth a jot ( aka my brother).

Then have to spend 5-10 years hunting round for something before realising that if they'd mabe applied themselves in a more useful subject in the first place then they'd have done better, along with actually having done some work for their degree rather than wasting 2 years partying before desperately cramming in the last year to no avail.

So DJ by all means feel free to donate some extra cash to the government with a note attached stating that you'd like to make a further donation in order that I can have my taxes spent somewhere more useful.

NB I have no problems with those students working hard and studying something potentially useful as have been mentioned before, I'm glad to put my hand in my pocket for them.

"Then have to spend 5-10 years hunting round for something before realising that if they'd mabe applied themselves in a more useful subject in the first place then they'd have done better, along with actually having done some work for their degree rather than wasting 2 years partying before desperately cramming in the last year to no avail."

It could of course, be argued that the government plans could have the opposite effect to the one that you imply i.e. if I want to spend ?45K having the time of my life partying, the best thing to do is to do a degree "that is not worth a jot" and then ensure that I dont earn more than ?21K a year, index linked year on year so I never have to pay any of it back.

THe unfortunate thing about your argument is that it aint always predictable which degrees will lead to a job. I remember just a few years back IT degrees were very much the thing. Now with the current lot of graduates one of the highest unemployment rates is with IT degree graduates.

Secondly in the marketisation of education which is what this is all about, the only value the Lib Dem Cons place on education is whether or not it results in a job which is why they rather illogically have pulled the plug on Humanities and Social Sciences funding etc. Its my understanding that this will not prevent poorer students getting support to do such courses. So your argument doesnt work there, as far as I know.

Thirdly, if you look at the vast majority of politicians in the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet, they did PPE (Politics, Philosophy and Economics). A seemingly useless course in this government's plans. Have you seen what those lads take home in salary and pension rights? If the government tries to lead people down the road of engineering, science etc, we end up with a substantial drop in the rate for the job and/or lots of unemployment in those areas.

Fourthly, ... Im off for a pint, but you get my drift, it aint that straight forward I suspect.

Cheers
D

belfast_birty wrote:

> All but the top 30 Universities in UK,should be shut down.That
> includes the so called 'new' ones,that give degrees in subjects
> that are no use to graduates(eg underwater knitting,media
> studies,surf science,golf course management etc).Those that
> remain open should require proper grades of entrance for their
> undergrads.Some Unis already set their own exams,rather than
> relying on the (severely) dumbed down,so called A levels,used
> now.

Rather drastic, but the question of simply having less students is one I do think they should consider. Also course lengths need to be looked at. Condensing from three years to a more intensive two would probably work for some areas. As for the cuts in funding, I hear there's a chance the top universities will start to consider going private and we end up with a two or possibly three tier system.

Thing is, these days many see a degree as having as much to do with status as actual eduction. Look how many end up scrabbling around for a place on any course available after their chosen area proved fruitless or grades didn't come up to scratch. Make of it what you will, but for the young just going to university is obviously a big thing in itself. Making places scarcer would not prove popular, and certainly not with the middle class.