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Yes I know things are tough in the UK and perhaps their time is up now anyway, but I was sad to hear of the demise of the Ark Royal and the incredible Harrier Jump Jet as part of the dreaded budget cuts.

The scrapping of the Ark Royal is sad because it's a big ship which must have lot of history and experiences connected with it. I think the first ship named the Ark Royal was part of Henry the Eighth's fleet. Lets hope there is another Ark Royal one day.

The Harriers were absolute world beaters when they first appeared. Even the cashed up yanks attempts at vertical take off planes were nowhere near as advanced as the Harrier back in the sixties when it was first developed. Vectored thrust (adjustable angle jet outlets as found on the Harrier) is now all the rage with super advanced aircraft such as the ultra costly F-22 Raptor - which the U.S. wont even sell to its closest allies.

All that knowledge and skill and craftsmanship involved in making these machines seems to count for nothing in the mind of politicians. I bet if someone wanted to demolish a stately old lawyers house it'd be a different story as many politicians are ex-lawyers and it would be something they could understand.

The Harrier force, which was joint RAF/Royal Navy, was the victim of the Bomber Barons in the RAF. They have always hated naval aviation, and the Tornado Mafia is their current incarnation.

Sir Jock Stirrup is a Tornado man, and it is clear he made damned sure the Tornado survived at the expense of the Harrier. Apparently, the Harriers were going to be kept right up till the last minute, when Jock Strap changed the plan too late for anyone to do anything about it. But the plan is shit. We have now lost the ability to move our own aircraft on our own ships anywhere in the world. Let's hope we don't need that capability for the next ten years, because one thing's for sure, Jock Strap won't be the one getting his arse shot off because there is no air power to deploy, all those nice Tornados being stuck on their runways in Norfolk.

"all those nice Tornados being stuck on their runways in Norfolk"

Hmmm KAF is a long way from Norfolk....

Harrier is a seriously f**ked airframe and would cost ???? to relife again. Robches wrote:

Yes, 8 Tornados at Kandahar, what are the other 100 up to? Plus, when it kicks off anywhere else in the world, how do the Tornados get there?

The Harrier force was scheduled to stay in service for several more years, that was literally changed the weekend before the defence review by Jock Strap to save the Tornados. He has sunk the navy's aviation capacity to protect his bloody Tornados. The man is a fucking disgrace.

Australia is buying up 100 Joint Strike Fighters and a lot of people connected with the air force down here think they're crap for Australia's needs - limited range, slow, rapidly rising price, ongoing delays with development and no match for Russia's latest offerings. I understand that the UK will also be getting the VTOl version of the Joint Strike Fighter to replace it's Harriers.

I hope all the bad news about the JSF's is just misinformation.

Why should Oz defend against Russia?
It would appear that Oz politicos and civil service are no different from the bastards here.
The bunch of twatts who have decided to scrap the most versatile aircraft EVER invented and to scrap the Navy's Air Arm should be tried for Treason and put against a wall and fucking well SHOT.
I will throw down the gauntlet and defy any one to say I am wrong.
That should get some of you going, to say the least.

RoddersUK wrote:

> Why should Oz defend against Russia?

Not so much that we'd be in direct conflict with Russia, but some nations like Indonesia are rumored to be buying Russian Sukhoi fighters like the Su-30 variants and others which (according to people who seem to know) would make quick work of our JSFs. Officially, Indonesia is supposed to be on friendly terms with us, but their politicians seem to have an inferiority complex and often sound like they want to fight a western country to rally support. With a crippled air force, we might look tempting.

Point taken, but them twatts didn't do so well during the Confrontation in the 60's when UK, Oz and the Kiwis stuffed their arses. I was there.
However, I suppose no politician is predictable apart from knowing when the bastards lie, which is when they open their mouths.