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If one of us got in a time machine and went ahead 50 or 60 years David Cameron's nephew will be a senior figure in the House Of Lords (or whatever they'll call the second chamber then), George Osbourne's grandson will be a Tory front-bencher, a descendant of a close friend of Jack Straw's brother-in-law with be a Labour front bencher, John Prescott's grand daughter will be a senior Labour figure, and so on. This sort of thing has always gone on and I fear it always will. Winston Churchill's grandson is an MP, Tony Benn's son is a government minister and there is an attempt to make Tony Benn's grandaughter a Labour MP aswell. The son of ex-Tory minister Douglas Hurd is an MP (Hurd's father was one too), and the former private secretary of Alec Douglas Home, Tory Prime Minister in the 1960's, is now a Tory MP (he is very old). As I said on another thread, Cameron and Osbourne are from a long line of Tory parliamentarians. Their family tree's read like a "who's-who" of Eton and the Conservative Party going back 100 years. This is true of Osbourne's wife's family aswell. None of these people are there on merit - it would be a huge coincidence if they were - it is all about family connections, a word in the right ear, putting well connected people forward for safe seats - which means they become an MP because no one voted for them to be the MP but vote for the party they want in Westminster, meaning the person enters Parliament that way. We have had this forever, it will continue for the immediate future and, I fear, for ever more. The public and the country are just pawns in a play all about ego's and power trips - and there is little we can do. Isn't it frustrating?

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No we won't.

IRA loving Ken fucking Livingstone once said that if voting ever achieved anything it would be banned. That is probably the only statement from that IRA loving bastard that I agree with
As a young man I voted for a Common Market, as explained by the politicians at the time, namely one fucking Edward Heath.
About a year before he kicked the bucket he was asked if the EU was ever envisioned, as an extension of the Common Market, that the majority of the British voters went to the polls for. The the sulky sour faced lying bastard replied "oh yes, it was always going to be" His words. That lying bastard sold this country down the river, and successive politicians, of all parties, have colluded with him. A pox on politicians. Do we need the bastards? I don't think we do.

I agree with that Rodders. We were all duped. I was only a little kid at the time of Heath taking us in but have learnt a lot about it since. No one ever expected it to go this far - we are far too deeply in.

I think you'll find that of all the parties in Ireland, Sinn Fein was the most consistent in its opposition to the Lisbon Treaty.

Why do you think that is? It's because they know that the EU represents the death of their aspiration for real Irish freedom and independence. There's not much point in arguing the toss over regional Irishness and regional Britishness when the heart longs for nationhood.

The EU means the death of Basque aspirations too. Spain could not suppress them alone, its democracy was too recent and too weak. So it joined the EU and criminalised ETA.

When English people rebel against the destruction of their country and its being turned into a regional parking lot, their feelings will be a lot like those of the provisionals - they will be prepared to fight against an army (by then, the European Army with its fully-integrated British contingent, microchipped and drugged into inhumanity) with whatever weapons it can find, a secret underground command structure, and a willingness to die for their cause.

Forget the British Army, Rodders. It does the bidding of our political leaders, and they have now accepted the federal EU superstate. It is ONLY the individual now that can achieve freedom. Democracy is now just a word on the lips of of confused young men who lie dying in the heat and dust of another people's country.

Max Tranmere,
It will never change jf the people keep seeing no choice between Labcon and Conlab who conspire together to fool the people.
What the people need is a revolution and a proletariat party in power.
Mike Freeman.
PS:However as long as the people have bread and circuses that's not likely to happen.

As long as the bankers are in control . NEVER .

It's all just too depressing for words...!tears!

we are pretty much all in accord,whoever we tend to vote for.. That is, once in ,they pretty much all ( with few exceptions) look to their own self interest..... 2nd home allowances,expenses,total uaaountability and the general feathering of nests et al,when they supposed to BE WORKING FOR US! ................ A SIMPLE,IMPOSSIBLE SOLUTION.................... Make all candidates standing for MP take a lie detector test based on altruism,integrity and motives.. Questions to be submitted by us..result/score/analysis of to be put alongside ANY and all promo literaure of theres, and on ballot sheets................. oh for an honest Politician x

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I will NEVER forget the British Army. I served for 22 years and my knowledge and beliefs in it are too entrenched fopr me to ever forget it.
It is one of our nations good points and has served us well, and will continue to do so of that I can assure you all.

The solution is to move to where your views are met . I am 40 years old und i never voted in my life .