egafd.com

hi layla,

caught you in 'hardcore' tonight. just wondered whether you felt it presented things fairly or if it was manipulative of the audience, etc. do you really like max hardcore? seems like an unmitigated scumbag to me.

and as for dick nasty, or richard as we now have to call him, it was a shame none of the camera crew took one of his king sized cigars and rammed it up his arse. see how he likes it!!

do any of the producers out there actually like women or did we just get to watch the shitty end of the stick?

seems like this bird was a typical essex slag. always going on er mum and er kid, and then playing the martyr role to perfection. she doesn't like being roughed up but she goes to max hardcore and rob black of extreme? thats either gross stupidity or very clever self marketing

you sound like a bit of a slag yourself.

not everyone has a working knowledge of the outer edges of the porn biz. it doesn't amount to stupidity or self promotion, just a slimeball taking advantage of his local knowledge when you're in an unfamiliar territory.

besides, if she was that good at acting she should be in eastenders, not some scuzzy porn flick.

bullshit

there was way too much pseudo psychology going on in that programme. the girl is in porn films. she knows what they are all about. she just wants to act like a whore on film and then have a get out. dick nasty was rightly exasperated by her feeble prima donna esque performances. the poor little girl act was wearing too thin for me after 2 mins. just cos the middle class director wants to assuage his guilt by pretending he was looking out for her doesn't mean i'm going to fall for it. there are millions of kids out there in single parent families who don't need to go to see max hardcore to get it out of there system. just as long as theres a documentary crew there to record what a horrible life shes had. woodgnome wrote:

maybe you're just one of those guys doesn't appreciate the 2 dimensional, phosphor dot, fuck fantasy laid out before them deviating in the slightest from how you have 'em pigeon holed - i.e. as whores, slags, etc - otherwise, why else would they do it?

she didn't have a problem with doing what was within her own notion of acceptability but she did have a problem with being pressurized and manipulated. she was happy to do bj's, fucking, dp, etc, but not asphyxiation or gang bangs, etc. that's not being a prima donna - that's just standing up for yourself!

is all psycholoy pop? she had what americans like to call 'issues' - no doubt about it - but that doesn't mean she can be used like a piece of toilet paper by men who run an industry that wouldn't be in existence without the consent of women.

there were things about the presentation of the programme that did bug me. the director couldn't quite resist the tired cliches that tend to accompany this subject. there were our old friends the grainy black and white images - usually blown up to imply a camcorder/sleaze factor; and we also had the sinister background music over certain scenes, because we the audience are obviously to stupid to work out what's going on for ourselves.

it could have been worse though. it would be nice if he did a follow up on the british industry, maybe following our hero ben about his daily business. i think his sinister music making buddies would have a hard time finding somewhre to fit their stuff in, though!

There was a bit of amateur psychology, true, but it always seems hypocritical to me to enjoy watching porn films and then call the girls who perform in them slags or whores. And if you don't enjoy watching porn films why are you here?

I think it was Dick Nasty who manipulated her into seeing Max Hardcore and the 'get it out of the system' bit was a bit of post hoc rationalisation on his part picked up by her to make her feel a bit less bad about it. Whose mind hasn't worked in a similar way on occasion? The person who is 100% rational at all times is someone I haven't met, not even when I look in the mirror.

ok, fair points from woodgnome and alec. i found the programme offensive and i went a bit over the top. slag and whore is a bit excessive and i don't mean to demonise girls in the biz. but its this type of crying to excuse her behaviour ( not that i personally think it needs to be excused ) that gets my goat. she clearly enjoys porn. explain this to me? ben dover is a great guy but max hardcore isn't. ben gets guys with huge cocks to fuck girls up the arse and then he spunks all over their faces. max hardcore is just a pantomime villain with a very small nob who does quasi hard stuff. i just want to make clear that what he does, what all porn stars do and indeed what lee anne does in this film pretty much falls into the same sphere of activity. its fucking spiced up in different ways. not some great emotional voyage of discovery or men exploiting women or any other crap that the unmitigated arse of a director was hopelessly grasping for.

i agree that the director was a classic example of the hand wringing middle classes, who's probably never even soiled his own body with the evils of self abuse - but i can't agree that because ben dover and max hardcore perform the same physical actions with lots of different women, that they are therefore indistinguishable.

i can't imagine ben doing what max hardcore did - i.e. bending her over and fucking her without even ensuring consent! if ben has a vice, it's that he'd could happily spend a whole tape jabbering away to a girl without ever getting down to the business at hand!

remember, this wasn't a set up; this wasn't some clever scenario worked out in advance between hardcore and the director. he just walked in and immediately took charge of her body. in his defence, he was merely acting in compliance with the laws that govern the universe which he has created for himself.

the troubling aspect for me though, was that one of those laws seemed to encompass the notion that respect for other individuals was of no account whatsoever!

by way of contrast, i was watching ben's 'foxy ladies' the other night. in the second scene, michelle tries to do anal but it obviously isn't the most comfortable act for her and so the scene is brief. according to max hardcores own words, that discomfort would be like finding gold and the scene would probably be twice as long as a result.

having sex in front of a camera isn't different from any other aspect of life. some people do it with the best of intentions i.e. to make a good living by turning people on; but some are on a more destructive trip - they want to cause pain and use the fear that it engenders to control those around them.

my personal preference is to enjoy people enjoying sex. why should there be any pain or stress involved? beats me!!

as you said, she enjoys porn but why should she have to enjoy being abused, as well?

I'm sorry, but the difference between working for Ben Dover and Max Hardcore is immense to say the least. The women who star in adult videos are at the end of the day - people. And as such they have thoughts and feelings like the rest of us.

As someone who works in the biz, I have met many girls who turn down work if they don't like the producer. They go to a film set to do a job, they want to work, get paid and go home. If you went into work Monday morning and your boss treated you like a piece of sh*t, then of course you would be understandably upset. The same goes for the girls.

When people make the assumption that doing a sex scene for Ben Dover must be the same as doing one for Max Hardcore is akin to telling Michael Schumacher that he must enjoy mini-cabbing as much as he does Formula 1. After all, he's being paid to drive for a living.

As for Channel 4 making a judgemental documentary about the porn industry, well that's hardly news. Obviously, I could go on about the hypocritical tactics involved, condemning the sex biz and at the same time using it to attract viewers, but that would be pointless.

All that really needs to be said, is that there is huge gulf between US and UK production ethics. The market is what we make it and if in America, they want to see mysoginistic, low budget, hateful gonzo rubbish then that is up to them. But here in the UK, the most successful producers know that it is the models that are the focal point of all productions and as such, need to be treated with respect.

Well my take on a few points made....

First of all this was clearly a very emotionally confused girl - "I wanted to do Page 3 so my Dad would notice me". PLEEEAASSE!
Well he will certainly have noticed her now!

Someone (Chris?) mentioned that she was OK with anal, DP, etc, but in fact she said that she didn't like anal - Dick Nasty had apparently told her to say she did... Well if she said she did, it's not surprising that producers thought she did and put her in anal scenes!

It's a (possibly) unfortunate fact that in the US porn scene you have to be *incredibly* gorgeous to dictate terms sufficiently to say you won't do anal as it is what is popular - especially in the gonzo end of the market. Either she is incredibly naive and poorly educated about the US porn scene, or she knew full-well she would have to do anal and this was indeed a self-marketing exercise. Having worked with Ben in the past, I'm sure he could have told her what the US scene is like if she really didn't know!

Woodgnome wrote:
> i can't imagine ben doing what max hardcore did - i.e.
> bending her over and fucking her without even ensuring
> consent! [...]
> remember, this wasn't a set up; this wasn't some clever
> scenario worked out in advance between hardcore and the
> director.

Of course it was a set-up - to some degree at least. Max clearly knew there was a British camera crew waiting in his house!!! Who knows if he does that with all the girls he meets. And for that matter, are all the girls expected to be waiting naked for him when he arrives??? If all she expected initially was to meet the guy and shake hands with him, discuss her possible scene, why on earth did she have no clothes on???????

I agree entirely with the point made previously - if she really wasn't interested in doing the more extreme end of porn, why on earth did she go and see Rob Black, and Max? Agreed Dick Nasty put a lot of pressure on her, but if she genuinely didn't want to do it, then she could simply have walked out. OK, that might have ruined her chances of working in the US again, but as also said before, there are thousands of single mothers who manage perfectly well without doing porn. Not to mention the fact that there is a huge european market (though again she would probably have ended up at the more extreme end of things).

That said, there are plenty of other agencies in the US who do not deal in the more extreme end of porn - e.g. Jim South's World Modelling - and film companies like Vivid who do not produce this sort of thing. That said, Lee-Anne/Felicity doesn't really have the looks for a Vivid girl, and she's too old for any of the more normal sex in the Barely Legal, University Co-Eds series, and the like. However she could have worked very happily with people like Rodney Moore or Ed Powers who are more like US versions of Ben!

Going back to Max, I did think that, as portrayed by the film, the whole thing did seem appalling. She was clearly being abused by him and apparently didn't want to do it, but she *had* heard about what he did and she must have known it would happen to her!


Andrew