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Just flown in from central europe and sat next to a german businessman. We got chatting, as you do, then the topic move around to the speed cameras and UK police officers.

He told me, that the UK police was top of most of the western european league tables, and for a brief moment I felt a little surprised, but then he explained:

UK Police, top of the pay league of forces in western europe
UK Police, top of the league for sick days taken
UK police, top of the league for pension benefits and earlist age taken
UK police, highest amount of time spent on traffic duties

Unfortunately they are also in the following positions;

UK police, lowest academic entry requirements
Lowest productive hours worked


The above made sad l listening to and only reinforces middle englands belief that something smelly is being dropped on us from all of the public sector for us to keep funding via higher and higher tax.

Well thats the last time I fly in the business section !!!.......bloody depressing.

No doubt management in the UK police is one of the worst.... and no doubt at all that recruiting standards have plummeted.
It is the police heirarchy and politicians that are to blame. Some of my friends are in the police, and they are alright, but they are exasperated by the aims of the force and the recruitment these of what are, quite frankly, idiots. Like many "service industries" (for that is how they see themselves) they choose to have their "public face" represented by unquestioning syncophants... you might have been stopped a few years ago for doing a few miles over the speed limit and had a reasonable chat with the officer concerned, and the result of which was a discussion about driving in general or perhaps even talking about motors, he'd work out that you weren't a moron or a criminal and you'd be on your way... nowadays of course you're more likely to be pulled over by some bimbo who has been brainwashed into thinking "SPEED KILLS" and you will be treated as someone who needs reminding of this in the form of a penalty. These type of people will never question where that money goes or why they are doing what they do, and this is the way things will stay. "Discretion" is no more, thing's are either black or white... and this has been a government initiative in order to keep people in line and the laws of the land unquestioned.
Pro-rata pay has dropped in the police (ask yourself how much you would want to work 3 shifts, risk your life, scrape up dead bodies off the road, visit homes of people who have been dead for days etc etc) and the benefits of doing this most unsociable of jobs have also declined rather rapidly along with the standard of recruits and the ethics of the job itself.
I wouldn't want to represent the police at any price, sign up as a skittle and then express astonishment when you get bowled down - and there is more chance of a poor woodentop getting "made an example of" than any of the much-publicised "lettings off" - I know many many examples of the police stitching their own men up in order to save public face, and the corruption at the top end will not have changed.
The problem is at the level of the politicians and chief constables, this "asda price" style policing is patronising and indicative of serious problems elsewhere

That's the trouble with most things in Britain , too much management and not enough staff doing anything productive . As for the old bill , they spend all day charging about with their lights flashing and don't do anything when they get there , they're a joke , on the one experience i've had with them . JJ .

This is plain stupid. It takes no account of the cost of living of the various European countries, nor the provision of the state for its employees, nor the different force structures, tasks, and ranks, nor the speciific national policing situations, nor the performance-monitoring systems of each country, nor the respective educational systems and their aims.

Let's get a few things straight. Our police force is head and shoulders above those of France, Italy and Spain, with far lower levels of corruption and violence against the public. Certain regional forces are outstanding. Others are very poor. To talk nationally is very difficult. It's almost impossible in a German, federal context. It doesn't take a great deal of insight to recognise that policing Liverpool is likely to result in more sick days than policing Surrey. Our cities are some of the most challenging to police in the world.

In Germany the police are respected due to a cultural love of authority (cliche, but true). Here the media and yoof culture has done a superb job of making the poilce out to be the enemy, rather than the scum it goes after. That makes joining the police a less attractive prospect, certainly for graduates. Who wants to be hated? It's equally difficult when the media is so keen to expose 'institutional racism'. I've no doubt that it exists, but in a nation FAR more tolerant than any of our European neighbours can it really be that our police force is so prejudiced? Whatever the situation we do need to recruit more quality applicants from the Black and Asian communities, so that it's clear to their youth that this is their force too.

It goes without saying that any force is imperfect. I've seen some very unpleasant specimens masquerading as policemen, particularly at the Poll Tax riots in Trafalgar Square, where the police beat people who were simply standing on the pavement ,and used their horses to provoke a situation so that they could get properly stuck in. I don't defend those elements. But I'm so sick of the expectation that the police are automatically thuggish, stupid , overpaid and bent. They're not. Of course there's room for improvement but that arises from a political will for change. This Government courts favour by doing nothing except responding to of-the-moment populist opinion. Gutless isn't the word.

Next time you moan about police pay, think about what they do. Then think about tube-drivers who earn more than the average copper could ever dream about.

Dynatech, your comments are sensible. The trouble with von boy's statistics is that they are not always comparing like with like. Many foreign forces do not have huge civilian back up staff and therefore police officers are only at the sharp end for a few years, unlike the UK where an officer is now expected to do 30 years on the street, it is therefore, perhaps, not surprising that our sick record is higher. In many foreign police officer go into admin jobs after a few years. Dynatech is right when he suggests that some senior officers and politicians are to blame for negative opinions about the police in this country. I see the old chestnut about police pensions is raised again. Yes, it is true they do retire early on a good pension, but what the Daily Mail and others who are always banging on about this fail to mention is that they contribute 11.75% of their salary towards their pensions. Hardly any other pension requires such a high contribution. It is hardly their fault that successive governments have chosen to fritter away theses payments instead of investing them as is the case in the better run private schemes. If the UK wants policing on the cheap, then it must expect a second rate service. I don't really understand why so many people think police are overpaid, after all a police constable earns substantially less than a train driver. That is not a criticism of train drivers pay, incidentally.

Police and service just don't seem to fit comfortably in the same sentence for me. Like most things in this twisted nation they are all a bunch of complete twats.

So i take it everyone is same as me , no faith or respect for the old bill ? I haven't , i have respect for the law and know the difference between right and wrong , but not those who dare i say it have the job of upholding it . 6 months all but 4 days since my car was nicked , petty crime to some i guess , but not me , i had 2 coppers come round to tell me they'd found it burnt out , 1 was sympathetic , 1 had the cheek to think i'd done it . 1 week later i had a phone call to say they'd done with the car and i could now go and "move it" when it was un-drivable , well done derbyshire constabulary for being a total waste of space . JJ .

I don't want to come out in complete support of the police but I can't let the "SPEED KILLS" comment past. On average 3500 people are killed on the roads in Britian every year. If you want to drive fast go to a race track; don't do it around me or my family. Its been a good week so far. I haven't seen a complete moron on the roads since yesterday. If you can't understand the meaning of the number 30 you're not intelligent enough to drive a car.

Oh Dear.
Ask any true road safety expert, any oldschool traffic cop... in fact anyone who actually knows what they are talking about and they will tell you it's not SPEED that kills, it's bad driving.
Sometimes conditions prevail that make it unsafe to drive at the allotted speed limit... BAD DRIVERS (and there are an ever-increasing amount of these about I'm afraid) drive to speed limits whatever because they are programmed to think they have to obey the letter of the law blindly... drive at 40 mph on an icy road (and people do) and you will cause an accident. Drive down the same road at 60mph at, say 3 in the morning in dry weather, and you will not cause an accident.
Hurtling past a busy primary school at 30 mph, yes you may be obeying the law but it doesn't mean you are driving responsibly. I rarely look at my speedo when I'm driving, this is because there are far more important things I should be paying attention to... road conditions, possible hazards, people that may step out onto the road etc etc...again any true expert will tell you this is good driving - if you pay more attention to your speedometer than the road ahead, this is what will kill!
Try explaining this or the fact that the UK motorway speed limits were set at 70mph when the average family car had a top speed of circa 80mph, cross-ply tyres, live axles and drum brakes to any young police officer and it will be beyond their comprehension.... "Speed Kills" is just a soundbite, another New Labour soundbite for the moronic masses to swallow, just like all the other intelligence insulting "Public Information" adverts of late. Speed only kills when the conditions (of the vehicle, of the road, weather etc) deem that speed to be inappropriate. The fact that this fact is beyond the understanding of most police officers now is what is relevant to this thread. And, if you look out, most "speed traps" are not set up where speed poses a major threat to public safety but where they can entrap as many drivers as possible.