egafd.com

Been reading the views in these two fine threads: 'New censorship law for the UK' and 'morals in a liberal democracy' and I am now trying to deal with the following question:

I watched a Channel 4 excellent doc a couple of weeks ago on a Russian Guy whose wife had been snatched and taken effectively into slavery in Turkey. After a tortuous couple of months she was returned through his efforts but she and he will never recover from the hell that she went through.

I was really touched by this couple's plight and the subject stayed with me highlighted by the fact the 100k's of women are being snatched into slavery every year.

Now, I just learn that 19 young women have been rounded up at a brothel round the corner from me in Birmingham, mostly from Eastern Europe and none of them there of their own free will.

I can't get my head around the fact that blokes are going to these places and screwing these captive women when any one can tell by the look in their eyes that these women don't want to be there. I can only assume that these blokes have been desensitised when it comes to Sex and Humanity and I wonder if the way sex is portrayed in 'some' pornography desentises 'some' observers and adds to their failure to be a decent human being first and foremost when faced by someone enslaved.

I won't go on but 100's of blokes a night were seeing these 19 women and fucking them rather than helping people who were very likely to be in real trouble.

Is the work of some pornographers not helping with the problem by reinforcing the desensitisation of some of their work's observers?

I know all the allegations re the Brum raid could turn out quite untrue but generally across Europe this problem is bigger than it's ever been.

Views much appreciated as I'm just seriously wondering.

There was also a 3.5 hour drama to back up that C4 programme. Grim stuff.

Police were on the radio today, this has been going on for a long time in a lot of places, the copper said in all the time they had been dealing with this they had NEVER had any concerned punters contacting them.

Prostitution is fine, daily rape? Hmm, these guys must know.......

Hi,
Your post is intelligent, well put and deserves respect. The idea that in brothels, the only ones who are exploited are the blokes, is obviously nonsense in alleged scenarios like this. Your comment about pornographers potentially desensitising people is a complex area and personally I don't know the answer though share your concern. Can people potentially become better individuals by being exposed over a long period of time to people who are kind, caring and generous? My guess is yes. Can people potentially become worse individuals as a result of being exposed over a long period of time to sites where guys abuse the girls and treat them with contempt. My guess is yes. Whether I am right or not, I have no idea. Whether you can ever come up with a definitive answer, I doubt it.
But hey, this is hardly the board to have this discussion. Vested interest comes to mind!
Cheers
D

It all comes down to morality, DJ. I missed the Channel 4 thing, but saw a news report a few months back about a girl who had gone missing from her home village in northern Russia and was tracked down working as a prostitute in the UK. In her case, it was being told she could get an au pair job easily, but once here she was told she had to earnt he cost of her transport and her upkeep---and guess how.

She got home safe and well, and her family were glad to have her back. Hopefully that will be the case with the young women in the Midlands brothel too. But this seems to be a more common occurrence in our country, and it's about time the authorities did something about it.

I've never visited a brothel (or spent time with a prostitute), so I don't know what the situation is in there. But there will be a number of men who get off on the rape aspect; who won't care what happens because having sex is the prime motive for them; or who just want to boast about having had sex with a beautiful woman. If they have no sense of morals, and cannot see beyond their own selfish needs, what makes you think they give a damn?

Fred West allowed many of his friends, and some of the local constabulary, to have sex with his wife, his daughters, and his girl friends, and look how long he got away with it. Dozens of people in France were recently convicted of being part of a paedo ring in one small town or village---the systematic abuse of scores of children, with wives condoning their husbands' behaviour.

Some folk cannot or will not see anything wrong with their actions. If they cannot empathise with those in this world who are suffering, then they will pretty well do whatever they like to whoever they like---and nothing else matters. There are monsters among us, but they are not evil, snarling villains; they're empty people, incapable of feeling.

I have friends who work in parlours, and they tell me of the influx of eastern european women all the time, 1 of them told me last week of new girls who started in her parlour, and they are both over here working of their free will and neither are good at english, yet both are busy non stop, i say free will since they clearly spend mass amount sof money on clothing, prada bags, burberry, all expensive clothes they wear, and they get ?80 taxi's to work and home...

I have been to pick my friend up many times and see the girls coming out...

So i think its a double edge sword on the fgirls here, some are of their own free will well for the dollar but their choice.

Desensitied ? ABSO-fricken-LUTLY people can and will be, if you shown one of todays horror films 30 years ago in a cinema people would scream in terror, if you shown the Autopsy program with the german guy 50 years ago people would have had heart attacks, as a whole we are more desensitied to what we see

"Now, I just learn that 19 young women have been rounded up at a brothel round the corner from me in Birmingham, mostly from Eastern Europe and none of them there of their own free will."

That could well be the case - but don't just take the unchallenged word of the authorities on that count - they have a loony, PC, agenda to promote. One that could be simmered down to 'All 'wimmin' are victims and all men are rapists, period?.


"I can't get my head around the fact that blokes are going to these places and screwing these captive women when any one can tell by the look in their eyes that these women don't want to be there."

I don't know the ins and out of this particular case, but in general many will want to be there - making serious money, compared with a life of drudgery and impoverishment in eastern Europe. I?m sure there are instances of imprisonment and forced sex slavery, but (I would guess) these are usually in the minority of establishments where eastern European criminal organisations have gained a foothold.


"I wonder if the way sex is portrayed in 'some' pornography desentises 'some' observers and adds to their failure to be a decent human being first and foremost"

Absolutely, particularly nowadays when porn has driven down a naff, sleazy, cul de sac. No longer focusing on the personality, image, beauty or sexuality of the female - but treating her simply as meat to be abused and used in alleyways and council flats. But hey, nowadays the girls are complicit in this, so there's no need for us to shed a tear.


"Is the work of some pornographers not helping with the problem by reinforcing the desensitisation of some of their work's observers?"

Yes, of course.



Officer Dibble

"Can people potentially become better individuals by being exposed over a long period of time to people who are kind, caring and generous?"

Not better as such - underneath we'll always be the shits that we ever were - but social conditioning vis a vis what is and is not an acceptable way of carrying on can ameliorate most of that. Just look back to the early part of the 20th century ? folks in general were much more respectful and conscientious. Responsibility, duty and the work ethic were big deals back then. It was expected, if not required, of one. Now that the finger pointing has been done away with by the PC mob, folks feel unconstrained about doing whatever the fuck they please.

"Can people potentially become worse individuals as a result of being exposed over a long period of time to sites where guys abuse the girls and treat them with contempt. My guess is yes."

You?re probably right. But the guys are not the only guilty party in the above scenario. It takes two to tango and those girls have gone along to a studio (of sorts) and allowed themselves to be portrayed in that way. If we are to point fingers, they should be equal opportunity ones.



Officer Dibble

Nowadays, parlour proprietors favour eastern European girls, as they are far more conscientious, reliable, polite and well turned out. They also have a much more positive attitude to the job, and life in general, than the British chav element that they have all but supplanted in many parlours.


Officer Dibble

This has been a problem in Holland, Belgium and Germany for a long time and we're just catching up - they haven't sorted it and prostitution has been legal or tolerated for 40 years. I don't think there is any real solution to this sort of problem and will always go on while poverty exists in the world. It's a problem, but no worse than sweat shops and child labour ... that we all 'condone' in a way, because we love cheap clothes and coffee, but it's more acceptable because it's in Africa or Asia.

I don't believe the police account that all 19 were there as captives, they seemed to be dressed rather well and some covering their faces on exit. The BBC report says 12 of them have legal status and will be released ... but seven will be held pending checks on their immigrations status.Likelihood is the 7 will be deported, so the motives of the police/Home Office are not all that genuine when they will have no qualms about sending them back to become re-trafficked or abused. These women should be given a passport and helped to integrate into our country if the motives were genuine. I would guess most will go back into prostitution of their own volition, including the 12 who can't be deported.

There's also something very strange about raiding with a squad of 25 female officers, a feminist swat team in effect (only in the UK)! Another case where somebody has been thinking too hard about how to make it look good in the eyes of the public and paint a picture.

There really is no strong provable link between porn and prostitution, apart from inside the warped minds of feminists and government ministers. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other - and becoming desensitised to visual images can't change a normal person into a monster. The monster would have been a monster regardless.

Damned Dibble, You stupid ? Didnt you know Equal Oppertunies only apply when women want something or feel like it?

At work in a night club about 3 years ago, remember that xmas where there was loads of snow before and after xmas and the summer was hot before it ? well hot as can be...

I had assembed a team of staff to work the streets as promotors, in feb/march/april before the summer and because it was cold only 1 girl joined the team, and did nothing but winge about the cold, so about end of april she quit and took a job elsewhere in the club and the team was 9 guys, who worked whatever the weather, rain, show, sleet hail whatever, they worked it, now soon as summer comes and it was red hot in the club, all of a sudden said girl wants to come back, and thats throwing "its coz im a girl they are all guys" in my face, and suddenly loads fo womern want to work on the team, and they all said "its not fair its all guys, only guys get to work on that team and they get it easy walking around going in other pubs and bars"...

Anyway my reply was "if you work the bad, you work the good", and this went on on and, you know what ? when it rained, non of the girls in the rest of the club wanted to go out, only when it warm, and when it was warm they used equal rights to try and push it...

So Dibble its only Equal Rights when it suits the person in question

For the record, my 2nd in command at main job as female, and in my last club job my team was equally male/female split, but i only hired during the cold period of the year to build my core team

Just my experience that Equal Opps is only when it suits i have 100s more examples similar where EO is used and abused