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Whilst I?m aware of that this post doesn?t relate to naked British chicks, it does raise some general questions applicable to the UK scene. In short, I haven?t heard any opinions from anyone here on the Extreme Associates/ Rob Black bust in the States?

Surely an Ashcroft/Bush crackdown on smut peddlers in the US will have repercussions for people working here? The clich? of ?America catching a cold and the world sneezing? applies to filth, as well as economics.

It?s especially important to remember that the charges relate to internet distribution of pornography, and not the sale of video or DVD.

Given that some UK folk are distributed by US companies who may well be in the firing line in the immediate future I?d guess this in on topic? Our usually confident US brethren seem to be quite freaked by this, I?m surprised it hasn?t come up as a topic of discussion yet.

I realise that we are all basking in the warm glow of the liberalisation of smut in Fortress Britain, but I get a definite sense that people at home are keeping a close eye on events, the BBFC included.

What do people think then?

The Govt. will continue to win many small battles in the near to middle future, but regrettably they're too stupid to realise the war has already been lost.
This also applies to drug legislation, where commonsense is also slowly prevailing.
Even in the US, there will eventually be a backlash against Fundamentalist Christianity (as espoused by Bush), just as there was against McCarthyism.
It's a cyclical thing, with tolerance (or rationality as I prefer it) incrementally gaining the upper hand.

The stuff Extreme Associates were doing is far, far and away worse than anything any of the UK producers do. A million miles way...

They had all kinds of sick shit going on in their movies.

mark

Problem is shitheads like extremeassociates make it harder for everyone into porn and erotica because they just confirm the religious right's worst nightmares. Unfortunately, while hopefully no-one here is producing shit like that, the prudes and hypoctrites will use this as a lever to attack all porn and sexual self expression (as they are trying to do in France at the moment). In my opinion extremeassc and their like deserve what they get, same as purveyors of kiddie porn and other rape sites etc, but the moralists will not stop with them unfortunately because unlike most of us they can't tell the diffference between the extreme misgynists and abusers and genuine sexual freedom of expression - they want to clamp down on it all.

"Fortress Britain" Where did that come from. We haven't been a fortress since WW2.

I am not familiar with extremeassociates or their ilk, but I assume from the posts above that they are pushing the boundaries as far as they are able. This is inevitable and as has been rightly said, it will be the yardstick for the "do-gooders", but then, the said "do-gooders" will use any weapon within their grasp (as would we all).

Considering a simple/sober commercial fact: If there was not a market, the extremists would quickly go broke and fade from memory. However.............

Personally, the Extreme Associates aesthetic of transgressing taboos by engaging in misogynistic excess isn?t to my tastes, but I?ll defend them to the death regardless. Especially given that I?m quite capable of deciding what ?depraves and corrupts?.

Are ?Forced Entry? or ?1001 Ways to Eat my Jizz? defendable as art?

Who gives a fuck. They are defendable as porn, and I?ve a god given right to watch people fucking, or at least they do in the US where they have a default 'freedom of expression' setting, we can only envy.

It?s worth remembering that many people see porn as an evil force, regardless of if it's content. There's something about filming sex they find offensive. Simplle.

Rob Black may be many things, some of them deeply unpleasant, but he represents an outlaw spirit. A return to the days when people shot porn because it equated to flipping the bird at straight society. Something us Brit folk have fought especially hard to achieve, given the many barriers placed in our way.

For this reason alone we should all be "on message". Willing to defend consensual sexual expression regardless of the form it takes.

So ends the first law of the Buddha.

Outlaw spirit my ass. He's not pushing back any boundaries, he's just blurring the boundaries as far a he can between consensual sex and rape&violence against women - I'm not prepared to defend that any more than I would be prepared to defend kiddie porn. Like you I believe I have a right to watch people fucking. Fucking is fun - rape, abuse, violence against women and murder is not fun. Its fodder for the sickos and even if its not real, the sad gits that watch it will get off on it as if it is. Thats not sexual freedom of expression, its sexual fascism. Sure we have to defend the porn industry and the right to watch sex. But why defend people who are not into sex, but are into violence and power games. That just undermines our freedom of expression and strengthens the cause of the moral crusaders.

Regardless of if you love or loathe the Rob Black aesthetic, free sexual expression doesn?t exist in a vacuum. If you are willing to defend peoples right to produce and consume sexually explicit material, it?s unfair to cherry pick examples that don?t transgress your own personal boundaries of good taste. This is exactly the same situation as free speech advocates often find themselves in, being forced to defend the right of Neo Nazi organisations to preach hate, because the principle must be defended, regardless of how offensive you find their message.

It?s worth bearing in mind that the work of Extreme Associates is still based on the principle of informed consent, despite the sometimes problematic tone and sexually aggressive subject matter. Some people (myself included) may take offence at watching women drink vomit and enema remnants (as featured in the ?Cock Tails? series), but ultimately the performers choose to do it. It?s no different to the participants in reality TV shows like ?Fear Factor?, consenting to eat pigs eyeballs or cow foetuses.

It may repulse, nauseate, and offend; but does it deprave and corrupt?

Personally I see this case as the major factor in deciding the way the industry goes forward over the next decade, both in the US and UK.

The BBFC are on record as saying they wish to see a reduction in the amount of extreme American material they currently classify, and the R18 guidelines are exactly that, guidelines, with the scope to be changed when necessary. A crack down in the States will eventually have an impact on the domestic scene, if only for UK based distributors trying to get American material classified and on the shelves.

I?m aware that after three long decades, the British hardcore drought is finally over, but I don?t think this any time to be complacent.

Whatever people's views here, the most important thing is that the US
adult entertainment companies all see this for what it is - Washington's
first attempts at the clampdown on an industry it despises and has been
forced to tolerate.

Rob Black cannot lose this case. I think there are direct parallels to
the Video Nasties scare here in the UK in the early 80s. Back then it
was "distasteful" and "shocking" horror films. The result? A rating
system that presumed adults could not judge for themselves what
they could watch. Mainstream films edited just to get 18 ratings from
the BBFC. Only in the last 2-3 years have the films that were banned
under the Video Recordings Act (e.g. Cannibal Ferox et al) have started
being released and most people haven't even noticed.

The line between sex and violence was dangerously blurred in at least one of the ExtremeAssoc films that caused the outcry; It depicted hardcore sex scenes in the context of violent rape, and ends with the woman being killed and mutilated.

I appreciate that there's a market for the more extreme stuff like Max Hardcore etc, but getting off on a scene that ends in death and mutilation is fucked up.

I know the general feeling on this forum is that the UK still has too much censorship and there should be no restriction on consensual hardcore, but perhaps a line does have to be drawn...

How about don't end sex scenes with a slit throat?