The Brutal Truth wrote:
> However there is one point missing about all this hoo haa and
> that is the very simple fact we don't live in a utopian society
> unfortunately. The porn industry is as much a cross section of
> society as any other. When I drive I am safe and courteous to
> other drivers but not all drivers are the same. There are
> idiots who start fights in pubs because they are wankers but
> the majority of people who go to pubs are nice people. Porn is
> no different. The vast majority of people involved in it are
> fantastic but as with all other walks of life there are going
> to be the idiots. And as such with other areas of life we all
> have to take the rough with the smooth no matter how much we
> wish we didn't have to. Everyone involved in this thread has a
> right to their own opinion and in a free society everyone has a
> right to believe that they are right regardless of what anyone
> else thinks.
>
Okay, so I ask you this:
Should we go through life just accepting this stuff and keeping our heads down as much as possible, and trying to not make too much of a big deal of it when these idiots make our lives hard, or should we speak up, point fingers, make it as abundantly clear as possible that it is NOT okay to behave like that, that anyone who does is a stupid arsehole and bordering on criminal behavior, and that the majority of normal civilised people will NOT tolerate it?
It may not be a utopian society, sure, but that doesn't mean we should all just shut up and put up.
Disillusioned with the Industry
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Emily Cartwright
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Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
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one eyed jack
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Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
To think all this came out of me sharing some insight. Dont forget it would have never came out if the subject wasnt broached.
I was merely pointing out the surprise the model felt about this revelation. Its funny to see how this thread has spiralled into this different direction about dodgy photographers.
And for the record a third time...this has no bearing whatsoever on Storm Child who merely initiated by saying he was disillusioned about the adult industry which he give his own reasons.
Looking at it another way I agree with Keith Rasputin that the porn industry for better or worse is probably the most civil out of most industries in that it is what it is and not as bad as others that are not generally sex oriented where you hear worse stories like the fashion industry has its own sneaky way of prostituting its own models and the movie industry....Remember Don Simpson and Heidi Fleiss anyone?
If anything, the porn industry highlights the worlds hypocrisies
I was merely pointing out the surprise the model felt about this revelation. Its funny to see how this thread has spiralled into this different direction about dodgy photographers.
And for the record a third time...this has no bearing whatsoever on Storm Child who merely initiated by saying he was disillusioned about the adult industry which he give his own reasons.
Looking at it another way I agree with Keith Rasputin that the porn industry for better or worse is probably the most civil out of most industries in that it is what it is and not as bad as others that are not generally sex oriented where you hear worse stories like the fashion industry has its own sneaky way of prostituting its own models and the movie industry....Remember Don Simpson and Heidi Fleiss anyone?
If anything, the porn industry highlights the worlds hypocrisies
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one eyed jack
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Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
Emily wrote:
Okay, so I ask you this:
Should we go through life just accepting this stuff and keeping our heads down as much as possible, and trying to not make too much of a big deal of it when these idiots make our lives hard, or should we speak up, point fingers, make it as abundantly clear as possible that it is NOT okay to behave like that, that anyone who does is a stupid arsehole and bordering on criminal behavior, and that the majority of normal civilised people will NOT tolerate it?
It may not be a utopian society, sure, but that doesn't mean we should all just shut up and put up.
No not at all. But if the awkward subject of it comes up (and I've advised many models of this) then just say no. You dont have to be rude or offensive.
If the person persists then its time to lay into them heavily. I say 'them' because it isnt just the ladies who are victims of this. I know of girls getting bitchy with some guys for not wanting a bit of off camera fun after hours would you believe. I would be very surprised if this kind of thing happened all the time. Like most things its always the few that spoil it for the rest.
Okay, so I ask you this:
Should we go through life just accepting this stuff and keeping our heads down as much as possible, and trying to not make too much of a big deal of it when these idiots make our lives hard, or should we speak up, point fingers, make it as abundantly clear as possible that it is NOT okay to behave like that, that anyone who does is a stupid arsehole and bordering on criminal behavior, and that the majority of normal civilised people will NOT tolerate it?
It may not be a utopian society, sure, but that doesn't mean we should all just shut up and put up.
No not at all. But if the awkward subject of it comes up (and I've advised many models of this) then just say no. You dont have to be rude or offensive.
If the person persists then its time to lay into them heavily. I say 'them' because it isnt just the ladies who are victims of this. I know of girls getting bitchy with some guys for not wanting a bit of off camera fun after hours would you believe. I would be very surprised if this kind of thing happened all the time. Like most things its always the few that spoil it for the rest.
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www.linkmojo.me/realcouples
www.twitter.com/realcouples
www.facebook.com/realcouples
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Emily Cartwright
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Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
Alice In Blunderland wrote:
> You keep using the term prostitute, all I am doing is saying
> porn stars/models fucking on camera and being paid to do so is
> no different from a woman having sex for money.
I keep using the term prostitute because a girl who has sex with someone in exchange for money is a prostitute.
And with all due respect, as someone who does get paid to have sex on camera, I am here to tell you that there IS a difference. If there wasn't I would do both.
> I don't want to be a performer, many of them also use things to
> maintain erections and delay ejaculation from what I
> understand. I am fairly aware of what happens at porn shoots
> having read several books, seen behind the scenes shoots etc
> and know full well how difficult it can be which is why I would
> never want to be in it just like I said not to film it either-
> I hear people on here talking about getting great shots etc
> well that is nice but when I look at a porn video or magazine
> the first thing I think is I would like to fuck her and see
> what she is wearing that may attract me to her more such as
> colour of stockings, her hair being down etc, the second thing
> is how well the scene is shot or photographed etc, I would not
> want to do porn if it becomes just a job and you say ho hum got
> to fuck another girl again or my god this lighting is
> incredible because to me that is when it is just a job and is
> not much fun- all credit to the men and women who can do that
> but most people could not.
Exactly my point. That is a large part of the difference. As you say you have an awareness of what goes on on a porn shoot so therefore you understand that it has very little relation to what goes on when two people have sex soleley for the pleasure of one or both of them.
> Yeah right girls get dressed up just for the sake of it not to
> attract men, I think you are the one dreaming, I am not telling
> you how to dress or being misogynistic but one thing you lack
> is being able to see things like most men do, now I do not go
> around making lewd suggestions to women nor do I frequent clubs
> for various reasons such as not being much of a drinker, not
> liking drugs, not liking horrible music being pumped out at ear
> shattering volume nor flashing lights however I do know how men
> think and believe me if you are dressed in a suggestive manner
> and dance/act in this manner also then you will attract
> attention, most women like this attention and is why they dress
> up and go looking for it, you may not be like that but the men
> will not know that and will try it on, such is life.
Okay, I'm not going to argue with you about this. On behalf of myself, the hundreds of female friends I have and pretty much the entire female population of the planet, I am here to tell you that WOMEN DO NOT DRESS IN SEXY CLOTHES JUST TO ATTRACT MEN. I am also aware of how men think, and I am aware that some men are stupid enough to assume that a short skirt and heels equals available and out to get some action. It doesn't. That's FACT. If you can't get your head around that then that's your problem, not mine, and if you ever decided to act according to the arguments you've just put forward you'd spend a lot of your time getting smacked in the face and kicked in the balls.
> No but because you refuse to use common sense and take control
> before the shoot you will be asked- that is your choice but why
> moan about it if you can prevent it quite easily but choose not
> to because you think it is above you to do so despite the facts
> other girls will do these things?
I refer you to where I explained that it's 0.1% of people who get the wrong idea and ask me for sex. The other 99.9% of people I work with have the basic courtesy and professionalism to not assume that since I'm an adult actress I must be an escort as well. They don't deserve to be insulted by me telling them not to ask if they can pay me for sex.
> Again you fail to address the point that many models many of
> them much better known than yourself do advertise themselves as
> being willing to have sex for money, can you not see where the
> confusion comes in?
Confusion. Exactly. The confusion comes from the fact that some people are incapable of comprehending that what goes for one model does not automatically go for all of them. To be fair, it's not all that difficult for anyone with a modicum of brainpower to realise that actually it's not a majority of models who do this. It's not even a significant minority.
> Well these celebrities would not be stars without the media,
> they lap up all the stuff written about them on their way to
> the top ans use the media for their own needs but when they get
> there the press are scum etc, more of the two faced stuff you
> fail to see- also porn stars would not be where they are
> without men getting horny and having erections, listen if you
> do not like the media then don't be a star, if you don't like
> horny men trying it on then don't be in the sex business
> because they will always be there.
Why, is it inevitable? Should I just be defeatist? Or actually should there be a concerted movement in behalf of the professional majority of the industry to weed out those few who think that it's all a really good excuse to get their end away?
> Yeah and I wish you would stop talking about being asked for
> stuff when you could quite easily stop it by making it known
> what you will and won't do before every shoot with somebody you
> have never worked with before instead of getting all
> moralistic when it happens, you take your clothes off, play
> with yourself, have sex with other women in front of these guys
> for christs sake you are not a nun, if a woman gets naked in
> front of a guy and is doing stuff and he is attracted to her it
> is that dirty word human nature to get an erection, if you are
> booking a girl for pornography the task at hand is sex and the
> guy may well be horny having just watched women doing all
> manner of sexual acts, if you stopped assuming that you are
> somehow above being asked for extras and actually said it when
> you booked the shoot you could save the aggro, or are you
> afraid you would lose the booking? but you would not want to
> work with those people anyway you say?
Firstly it says quite clearly in the majority if not all of my profiles and adverts that I only work up to g/g and I don't do b/g work. Anyone with half a brain would make the basic connection and assume that since I don't fuck guys on camera for money, I fuck guys off camera for money. And yet, once or twice a month, in my inbox, "saw your profile, want to book a shoot, oh and do you offer hand relief afterwards".
Why? Because the kinds of guys who do this are MORONS, they are STUPID, they don't bother to read anything or do any proper research, they just find a girl they like the look of and straight up ask her if she'll fuck them for cash. This people are brutally idiotic, as is anyone who thinks that just because a girl will get naked and play on camera that means she's open for business with any guy who fancies it.
> Good- why not only work with people you know that way you will
> never be offended by the disgraceful suggestion that an adult
> actress/ porn star/model or whatever you want to describe
> yourself as may want to earn some extra money and leave it to
> the girls that will, I do not know why you are apportioning
> blame and making a mountain out of a molehill- you say no and
> that is the end of it nobody is forcing you to do anything,
> either state what you do before the shoot or be prepared to put
> up with the offers.
Because, simply put, and as I keep reminding you with monotonous regularity, the people who ask for sexual extras are a TINY MINORITY. I can't honestly believe that you're suggesting I back out of modelling because I don't like the suggestion that I'll screw anyone for cash. I'm apportioning blame because people who want to pay for sex have no business dressing it up as a photo shoot. They should be looking for escorts. As you keep saying there are plenty of models who will gladly escort and are open about it, why not go directly to them instead of hassling me? Because, as I said above, these people are MORONS. They have no place in the industry. People work in this business to make images or film, not to get fucked. These people who apparently are too stupid to tell the difference between a model and an escort need to be weeded out, and at least pointed in the direction of a place where they can get real escorts who do escorting work.
> You keep using the term prostitute, all I am doing is saying
> porn stars/models fucking on camera and being paid to do so is
> no different from a woman having sex for money.
I keep using the term prostitute because a girl who has sex with someone in exchange for money is a prostitute.
And with all due respect, as someone who does get paid to have sex on camera, I am here to tell you that there IS a difference. If there wasn't I would do both.
> I don't want to be a performer, many of them also use things to
> maintain erections and delay ejaculation from what I
> understand. I am fairly aware of what happens at porn shoots
> having read several books, seen behind the scenes shoots etc
> and know full well how difficult it can be which is why I would
> never want to be in it just like I said not to film it either-
> I hear people on here talking about getting great shots etc
> well that is nice but when I look at a porn video or magazine
> the first thing I think is I would like to fuck her and see
> what she is wearing that may attract me to her more such as
> colour of stockings, her hair being down etc, the second thing
> is how well the scene is shot or photographed etc, I would not
> want to do porn if it becomes just a job and you say ho hum got
> to fuck another girl again or my god this lighting is
> incredible because to me that is when it is just a job and is
> not much fun- all credit to the men and women who can do that
> but most people could not.
Exactly my point. That is a large part of the difference. As you say you have an awareness of what goes on on a porn shoot so therefore you understand that it has very little relation to what goes on when two people have sex soleley for the pleasure of one or both of them.
> Yeah right girls get dressed up just for the sake of it not to
> attract men, I think you are the one dreaming, I am not telling
> you how to dress or being misogynistic but one thing you lack
> is being able to see things like most men do, now I do not go
> around making lewd suggestions to women nor do I frequent clubs
> for various reasons such as not being much of a drinker, not
> liking drugs, not liking horrible music being pumped out at ear
> shattering volume nor flashing lights however I do know how men
> think and believe me if you are dressed in a suggestive manner
> and dance/act in this manner also then you will attract
> attention, most women like this attention and is why they dress
> up and go looking for it, you may not be like that but the men
> will not know that and will try it on, such is life.
Okay, I'm not going to argue with you about this. On behalf of myself, the hundreds of female friends I have and pretty much the entire female population of the planet, I am here to tell you that WOMEN DO NOT DRESS IN SEXY CLOTHES JUST TO ATTRACT MEN. I am also aware of how men think, and I am aware that some men are stupid enough to assume that a short skirt and heels equals available and out to get some action. It doesn't. That's FACT. If you can't get your head around that then that's your problem, not mine, and if you ever decided to act according to the arguments you've just put forward you'd spend a lot of your time getting smacked in the face and kicked in the balls.
> No but because you refuse to use common sense and take control
> before the shoot you will be asked- that is your choice but why
> moan about it if you can prevent it quite easily but choose not
> to because you think it is above you to do so despite the facts
> other girls will do these things?
I refer you to where I explained that it's 0.1% of people who get the wrong idea and ask me for sex. The other 99.9% of people I work with have the basic courtesy and professionalism to not assume that since I'm an adult actress I must be an escort as well. They don't deserve to be insulted by me telling them not to ask if they can pay me for sex.
> Again you fail to address the point that many models many of
> them much better known than yourself do advertise themselves as
> being willing to have sex for money, can you not see where the
> confusion comes in?
Confusion. Exactly. The confusion comes from the fact that some people are incapable of comprehending that what goes for one model does not automatically go for all of them. To be fair, it's not all that difficult for anyone with a modicum of brainpower to realise that actually it's not a majority of models who do this. It's not even a significant minority.
> Well these celebrities would not be stars without the media,
> they lap up all the stuff written about them on their way to
> the top ans use the media for their own needs but when they get
> there the press are scum etc, more of the two faced stuff you
> fail to see- also porn stars would not be where they are
> without men getting horny and having erections, listen if you
> do not like the media then don't be a star, if you don't like
> horny men trying it on then don't be in the sex business
> because they will always be there.
Why, is it inevitable? Should I just be defeatist? Or actually should there be a concerted movement in behalf of the professional majority of the industry to weed out those few who think that it's all a really good excuse to get their end away?
> Yeah and I wish you would stop talking about being asked for
> stuff when you could quite easily stop it by making it known
> what you will and won't do before every shoot with somebody you
> have never worked with before instead of getting all
> moralistic when it happens, you take your clothes off, play
> with yourself, have sex with other women in front of these guys
> for christs sake you are not a nun, if a woman gets naked in
> front of a guy and is doing stuff and he is attracted to her it
> is that dirty word human nature to get an erection, if you are
> booking a girl for pornography the task at hand is sex and the
> guy may well be horny having just watched women doing all
> manner of sexual acts, if you stopped assuming that you are
> somehow above being asked for extras and actually said it when
> you booked the shoot you could save the aggro, or are you
> afraid you would lose the booking? but you would not want to
> work with those people anyway you say?
Firstly it says quite clearly in the majority if not all of my profiles and adverts that I only work up to g/g and I don't do b/g work. Anyone with half a brain would make the basic connection and assume that since I don't fuck guys on camera for money, I fuck guys off camera for money. And yet, once or twice a month, in my inbox, "saw your profile, want to book a shoot, oh and do you offer hand relief afterwards".
Why? Because the kinds of guys who do this are MORONS, they are STUPID, they don't bother to read anything or do any proper research, they just find a girl they like the look of and straight up ask her if she'll fuck them for cash. This people are brutally idiotic, as is anyone who thinks that just because a girl will get naked and play on camera that means she's open for business with any guy who fancies it.
> Good- why not only work with people you know that way you will
> never be offended by the disgraceful suggestion that an adult
> actress/ porn star/model or whatever you want to describe
> yourself as may want to earn some extra money and leave it to
> the girls that will, I do not know why you are apportioning
> blame and making a mountain out of a molehill- you say no and
> that is the end of it nobody is forcing you to do anything,
> either state what you do before the shoot or be prepared to put
> up with the offers.
Because, simply put, and as I keep reminding you with monotonous regularity, the people who ask for sexual extras are a TINY MINORITY. I can't honestly believe that you're suggesting I back out of modelling because I don't like the suggestion that I'll screw anyone for cash. I'm apportioning blame because people who want to pay for sex have no business dressing it up as a photo shoot. They should be looking for escorts. As you keep saying there are plenty of models who will gladly escort and are open about it, why not go directly to them instead of hassling me? Because, as I said above, these people are MORONS. They have no place in the industry. People work in this business to make images or film, not to get fucked. These people who apparently are too stupid to tell the difference between a model and an escort need to be weeded out, and at least pointed in the direction of a place where they can get real escorts who do escorting work.
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
-
Emily Cartwright
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
one eyed jack wrote:
> No not at all. But if the awkward subject of it comes up (and
> I've advised many models of this) then just say no. You dont
> have to be rude or offensive.
>
> If the person persists then its time to lay into them heavily.
> I say 'them' because it isnt just the ladies who are victims of
> this. I know of girls getting bitchy with some guys for not
> wanting a bit of off camera fun after hours would you believe.
> I would be very surprised if this kind of thing happened all
> the time. Like most things its always the few that spoil it for
> the rest.
The problem is that as a professional model who behaves professionally and likes to insist that the people I work with do the same, I know from experience that a guy asking if he can slip me some extra cash if I'll touch him in his special place just RUINS the shoot. I can't relax knowing that there's a guy who is just thinking about fucking me in the room. I can't perform well on camera because I know that at this point he doesn't even give a shit about the quality of the images or footage. I start to feel like the performance I'm giving is just for the benefit of the guy stood in front of me, not for his website members or magazine readers or whatever. I feel cheated because I came for a photo shoot and now it just seems like the guy just wanted to be in a room with me while I do stuff. It drastically affects the dynamic of the shoot.
So it's not as simple as saying "no" and getting on with it.
I can't possibly comment about the ratio of girls to guys asking for extras. If a model makes a habit of boosting her income with extras then I can see why she would get all pissy if a photographer turned her down, but as you say there is no WAY that these instances occur anywhere near as frequently as photographers asking models for sex. To an extent these models do reinforce the idea that these guys have that models will also escort, but I'll bet it's not the girls who are telling these guys "ask any model you want, they won't mind".
> No not at all. But if the awkward subject of it comes up (and
> I've advised many models of this) then just say no. You dont
> have to be rude or offensive.
>
> If the person persists then its time to lay into them heavily.
> I say 'them' because it isnt just the ladies who are victims of
> this. I know of girls getting bitchy with some guys for not
> wanting a bit of off camera fun after hours would you believe.
> I would be very surprised if this kind of thing happened all
> the time. Like most things its always the few that spoil it for
> the rest.
The problem is that as a professional model who behaves professionally and likes to insist that the people I work with do the same, I know from experience that a guy asking if he can slip me some extra cash if I'll touch him in his special place just RUINS the shoot. I can't relax knowing that there's a guy who is just thinking about fucking me in the room. I can't perform well on camera because I know that at this point he doesn't even give a shit about the quality of the images or footage. I start to feel like the performance I'm giving is just for the benefit of the guy stood in front of me, not for his website members or magazine readers or whatever. I feel cheated because I came for a photo shoot and now it just seems like the guy just wanted to be in a room with me while I do stuff. It drastically affects the dynamic of the shoot.
So it's not as simple as saying "no" and getting on with it.
I can't possibly comment about the ratio of girls to guys asking for extras. If a model makes a habit of boosting her income with extras then I can see why she would get all pissy if a photographer turned her down, but as you say there is no WAY that these instances occur anywhere near as frequently as photographers asking models for sex. To an extent these models do reinforce the idea that these guys have that models will also escort, but I'll bet it's not the girls who are telling these guys "ask any model you want, they won't mind".
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
-
one eyed jack
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- Location: London
- Contact:
Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
I guess I have to face up to it Emily. You are making a point that in all my years of producing has never presented itself so explicitly which I can understand now why you are so steadfast on this.
My revelation is obviously a lot subtle than what you are stating. I can agree that if it is indeed awkward then you know the shoot wont turn out so well. I'm first and foremost about making my movies and done plenty of them.
When i was performing I did ask girls to do scenes with me and this is where I see we got our wires crossed. Personally I have never asked girls for extras off camera despite going out with several girls in the industry but these were always girls that I knew did b/g. I did find new talent that I did get into the industry many times...Does this also make me bad for soliciting girls in the first place who went onto agreeing to do videos? That s not including those who knew what I did that activelt sought me out.
I've only ever experienced this with people not getting on due to a comment (non sexual) said out of turn.
Even girls who have complained about the touchy-feely/ stalking/ hawking producer/photographer never expressed it in this way.
All I'm saying is, being a producer of porn, if no one asked, there would never be any girls doing porn and if we had to wait for girls to find the producers, this industry would be a ghost town.
I guess I'm probably weird that I'm mainly asking girls who are couples now to do videos. The moment a girl said no. I never pushed but said the offer is there if they changed their minds.
In short I treat people like I would like to be treated. Again, while I can understand your views I'm equally surprised that you take such offence unless you've been solicited so explicitly that you really felt violated.
I think the problem here on this thread is that some illusions have been shattered as some dont understand that being professional negates the enjoyment of sex whether it is for a finsished product or not. Hence, if it is all about professional and you are selling sex as a commodity why the lines of model vs prostitute has been blurred to some.
My revelation is obviously a lot subtle than what you are stating. I can agree that if it is indeed awkward then you know the shoot wont turn out so well. I'm first and foremost about making my movies and done plenty of them.
When i was performing I did ask girls to do scenes with me and this is where I see we got our wires crossed. Personally I have never asked girls for extras off camera despite going out with several girls in the industry but these were always girls that I knew did b/g. I did find new talent that I did get into the industry many times...Does this also make me bad for soliciting girls in the first place who went onto agreeing to do videos? That s not including those who knew what I did that activelt sought me out.
I've only ever experienced this with people not getting on due to a comment (non sexual) said out of turn.
Even girls who have complained about the touchy-feely/ stalking/ hawking producer/photographer never expressed it in this way.
All I'm saying is, being a producer of porn, if no one asked, there would never be any girls doing porn and if we had to wait for girls to find the producers, this industry would be a ghost town.
I guess I'm probably weird that I'm mainly asking girls who are couples now to do videos. The moment a girl said no. I never pushed but said the offer is there if they changed their minds.
In short I treat people like I would like to be treated. Again, while I can understand your views I'm equally surprised that you take such offence unless you've been solicited so explicitly that you really felt violated.
I think the problem here on this thread is that some illusions have been shattered as some dont understand that being professional negates the enjoyment of sex whether it is for a finsished product or not. Hence, if it is all about professional and you are selling sex as a commodity why the lines of model vs prostitute has been blurred to some.
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www.onemanbanned.com
www.linkmojo.me/realcouples
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Emily Cartwright
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
I think the bottom line in the argument is not to do with the porn actress who some guy is asking to suck him off for ?100, or the civilian girl who you're asking if she's ever considered being in porn, It's to do with the motivations of the people doing the asking.
I take it you were asking these girls to be in porn not because you wanted to fuck them and you thought it would be a good way to get them to do it. You were doing it as a professional, you work in an industry that's legal, and whilst it's still not 100% socially acceptable, considering the amount of tits there are on display day in day out on TV or in tabloids and magazines, asking a pretty girl whether she's ever thought about maybe doing some adult work is a legitimate question, you're not asking because you think she looks slutty enough, or because she's always dressed in skimpy clothing, youre doing so because in your opinion as a pro you think she's attractive and has the right kind of personality to do well as a model.
The motivations of a photographer asking a model to have sex with him for money are altogether unprofessional. They are situated squarely outside of the scope of the industry. Therefore, in my opinion, the transaction has no place within the industry. One professional contacting another professional with a view to arrange a business agreement should not also be thinking about emptying his balls. When a photo or video shoot is taking place, the focus should be on producing good pictures or footage, on getting the lighting right, good makeup, proper wardrobe, a convincing performance and so on.
So when a photorapher springs the stupid question mid-shoot, it's insulting to me on several levels: I feel insulted that he's used my modelling as an angle to try to fuck me. I feel insulted that he's booked me despite the fact that he clearly doesn't give a shit about the quality of my modelling. I feel insulted that he's made a cheap assumption about my career choices. And finally I feel insulted that he's put me in a situation that I did't agree to.
one eyed jack wrote:
> I guess I have to face up to it Emily. You are making a point
> that in all my years of producing has never presented itself so
> explicitly which I can understand now why you are so steadfast
> on this.
>
> My revelation is obviously a lot subtle than what you are
> stating. I can agree that if it is indeed awkward then you know
> the shoot wont turn out so well. I'm first and foremost about
> making my movies and done plenty of them.
>
> When i was performing I did ask girls to do scenes with me and
> this is where I see we got our wires crossed. Personally I have
> never asked girls for extras off camera despite going out with
> several girls in the industry but these were always girls that
> I knew did b/g. I did find new talent that I did get into the
> industry many times...Does this also make me bad for soliciting
> girls in the first place who went onto agreeing to do videos?
> That s not including those who knew what I did that activelt
> sought me out.
>
> I've only ever experienced this with people not getting on due
> to a comment (non sexual) said out of turn.
>
> Even girls who have complained about the touchy-feely/
> stalking/ hawking producer/photographer never expressed it in
> this way.
>
> All I'm saying is, being a producer of porn, if no one asked,
> there would never be any girls doing porn and if we had to wait
> for girls to find the producers, this industry would be a ghost
> town.
>
> I guess I'm probably weird that I'm mainly asking girls who are
> couples now to do videos. The moment a girl said no. I never
> pushed but said the offer is there if they changed their minds.
>
> In short I treat people like I would like to be treated. Again,
> while I can understand your views I'm equally surprised that
> you take such offence unless you've been solicited so
> explicitly that you really felt violated.
>
> I think the problem here on this thread is that some illusions
> have been shattered as some dont understand that being
> professional negates the enjoyment of sex whether it is for a
> finsished product or not. Hence, if it is all about
> professional and you are selling sex as a commodity why the
> lines of model vs prostitute has been blurred to some.
>
>
I take it you were asking these girls to be in porn not because you wanted to fuck them and you thought it would be a good way to get them to do it. You were doing it as a professional, you work in an industry that's legal, and whilst it's still not 100% socially acceptable, considering the amount of tits there are on display day in day out on TV or in tabloids and magazines, asking a pretty girl whether she's ever thought about maybe doing some adult work is a legitimate question, you're not asking because you think she looks slutty enough, or because she's always dressed in skimpy clothing, youre doing so because in your opinion as a pro you think she's attractive and has the right kind of personality to do well as a model.
The motivations of a photographer asking a model to have sex with him for money are altogether unprofessional. They are situated squarely outside of the scope of the industry. Therefore, in my opinion, the transaction has no place within the industry. One professional contacting another professional with a view to arrange a business agreement should not also be thinking about emptying his balls. When a photo or video shoot is taking place, the focus should be on producing good pictures or footage, on getting the lighting right, good makeup, proper wardrobe, a convincing performance and so on.
So when a photorapher springs the stupid question mid-shoot, it's insulting to me on several levels: I feel insulted that he's used my modelling as an angle to try to fuck me. I feel insulted that he's booked me despite the fact that he clearly doesn't give a shit about the quality of my modelling. I feel insulted that he's made a cheap assumption about my career choices. And finally I feel insulted that he's put me in a situation that I did't agree to.
one eyed jack wrote:
> I guess I have to face up to it Emily. You are making a point
> that in all my years of producing has never presented itself so
> explicitly which I can understand now why you are so steadfast
> on this.
>
> My revelation is obviously a lot subtle than what you are
> stating. I can agree that if it is indeed awkward then you know
> the shoot wont turn out so well. I'm first and foremost about
> making my movies and done plenty of them.
>
> When i was performing I did ask girls to do scenes with me and
> this is where I see we got our wires crossed. Personally I have
> never asked girls for extras off camera despite going out with
> several girls in the industry but these were always girls that
> I knew did b/g. I did find new talent that I did get into the
> industry many times...Does this also make me bad for soliciting
> girls in the first place who went onto agreeing to do videos?
> That s not including those who knew what I did that activelt
> sought me out.
>
> I've only ever experienced this with people not getting on due
> to a comment (non sexual) said out of turn.
>
> Even girls who have complained about the touchy-feely/
> stalking/ hawking producer/photographer never expressed it in
> this way.
>
> All I'm saying is, being a producer of porn, if no one asked,
> there would never be any girls doing porn and if we had to wait
> for girls to find the producers, this industry would be a ghost
> town.
>
> I guess I'm probably weird that I'm mainly asking girls who are
> couples now to do videos. The moment a girl said no. I never
> pushed but said the offer is there if they changed their minds.
>
> In short I treat people like I would like to be treated. Again,
> while I can understand your views I'm equally surprised that
> you take such offence unless you've been solicited so
> explicitly that you really felt violated.
>
> I think the problem here on this thread is that some illusions
> have been shattered as some dont understand that being
> professional negates the enjoyment of sex whether it is for a
> finsished product or not. Hence, if it is all about
> professional and you are selling sex as a commodity why the
> lines of model vs prostitute has been blurred to some.
>
>
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
OEJ wrote:
'I think the problem here on this thread is that some illusions have been shattered as some dont understand that being professional negates the enjoyment of sex whether it is for a finished product or not. Hence, if it is all about professional and you are selling sex as a commodity why the lines of model vs prostitute has been blurred to some'.
I found this quotation earlier in the year in a book which has nothing to do with porn. ' Male writers have described the hooker as the ultimate narcissist, the ultimate inhabitant of the modern city, for she takes the mirror of performance and with it the cash nexus into the very heart of intimacy'.
I would see this as having some relevance to the discussion, but lets be clear that i'm NOT confusing hookers and performers, but surely the 'mirror of performance' is the simulation and the 'act' that Emily has referred to. The job of the performer is to 'look' like she's enjoying it .. does it matter whether she actually is or not, as long as she appears to be? Arguably the question of the performer's enjoyment is more to do with marketing and about the product's supposed 'authenticity'.
In mainstream cinema we suspend disbelief and buy into the fantasy. In 'The Last King Of Scotland' we know Forest Whitaker isn't Idi Amin and yet we want to believe in the authenticity of the performance, and much was made of Whitaker's 'method' and the lengths he went to stay 'in character'. Whitaker's a professional .. does it matter whether or not he enjoyed 'being' Idi Amin ? Shouldn't we just enjoy the performance ?
'I think the problem here on this thread is that some illusions have been shattered as some dont understand that being professional negates the enjoyment of sex whether it is for a finished product or not. Hence, if it is all about professional and you are selling sex as a commodity why the lines of model vs prostitute has been blurred to some'.
I found this quotation earlier in the year in a book which has nothing to do with porn. ' Male writers have described the hooker as the ultimate narcissist, the ultimate inhabitant of the modern city, for she takes the mirror of performance and with it the cash nexus into the very heart of intimacy'.
I would see this as having some relevance to the discussion, but lets be clear that i'm NOT confusing hookers and performers, but surely the 'mirror of performance' is the simulation and the 'act' that Emily has referred to. The job of the performer is to 'look' like she's enjoying it .. does it matter whether she actually is or not, as long as she appears to be? Arguably the question of the performer's enjoyment is more to do with marketing and about the product's supposed 'authenticity'.
In mainstream cinema we suspend disbelief and buy into the fantasy. In 'The Last King Of Scotland' we know Forest Whitaker isn't Idi Amin and yet we want to believe in the authenticity of the performance, and much was made of Whitaker's 'method' and the lengths he went to stay 'in character'. Whitaker's a professional .. does it matter whether or not he enjoyed 'being' Idi Amin ? Shouldn't we just enjoy the performance ?