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Sam, I understand what you're trying to say and thanks for being civil about it (you seem to be mellowing in your old age !wink!).

But your assumption on one point is dead wrong: Had Kim said "racists need to be fucking shot" I wouldn't have taken it literally nor would I have dived in to pull her up on it.

I'd have taken it for what it was - a throwaway comment on a forum not to be understood as an intent to commit actual violence. An emotional expression, nothing more.

You also make the mistake of equating "right wing" views with "racism", as if the two things are one and the same. They're not (necessarily). You can hold "right-wing" views without being "racist". "Right wing" isn't just about race, it covers a whole range of political, economic and social issues. So while some (but not all) of my views may be construed as "right wing" I can state for the record that I don't like racists either.

I'm against 'open-door' immigration and am very sceptical about the "wonders" of multicultural social engineering. But that's not the same as being "racist", which I think is a term that gets tossed around far too much these days, to the detriment of reasoned debate.

- Eric

Methinks the man complaineth too much.

David Johnson wrote:

> Maybe I don't trust Eric because he fantasised about the size
> of my cock.


You mean you've actually got one?! !laugh!

- Eric

[quote]Sam, I understand what you're trying to say and thanks for being civil about it (you seem to be mellowing in your old age ).[/quote]

Younger than you I bet, you old fart!

[quote]But your assumption on one point is dead wrong: Had Kim said "racists need to be fucking shot" I wouldn't have taken it literally nor would I have dived in to pull her up on it.

I'd have taken it for what it was - a throwaway comment on a forum not to be understood as an intent to commit actual violence. An emotional expression, nothing more.[/quote]

Fair enough. I'll have to take your word for that but I still have my doubts.

[quote]You also make the mistake of equating "right wing" views with "racism", as if the two things are one and the same.[/quote]

I wasn't implying all right-wingers are racist. But given most racists -at least in the West- have right-wing views one could assume that Kim's hypothetical assertion that "all racists should be shot" could be seen as an attempt at a serious clamping down of those views as a whole (if you're right-wing and feel your views are constantly under attack from do-gooders and champaign socialists, say.....). It's not ridiculous to assume some right-wingers who think this way would indeed react to Kim's hypothetical post in the manner I think you might. A sort of 'thin edge of the wedge' argument.

[quote]I'm against 'open-door' immigration and am very sceptical about the "wonders" of multicultural social engineering. But that's not the same as being "racist", which I think is a term that gets tossed around far too much these days, to the detriment of reasoned debate.[/quote]

I'm against 'open-door' immigration and I think there are many things wrong with multiculturalism, too. I just don't think it's the worst way to run society either. I'm neither an advocate or an opposer of multiculturalism. I am, I suppose, a realist and understand that there will be good and bad in society no matter how we decide to organise it. And I agree that far too many are eager to accuse some of racism (or at least imply it) if you hold such views, but it's also just as true that people like you, Dibble et el have bandied the words 'do-gooder', 'bleeding heart', 'hand-wringing', 'champaign socialists' about all too easily as well. You could say people from both sides have used the same tactics which pushes out serious, objective discourse getting us all nowhere.

Its astonishing how many white people on here constantly go on about racism and racist issues.

I doubt ANY of you have ever had any form of racist comment made to you or made to feel a certain way about your race.

Of course its well and good to come onto a forum and talk about it. Keyboard warriors do nothing to help real life issues.

From the 70s to now i have seen all manner of racism and never once seen it directed at a caucasian person yet!

but keep talking it may help but i doubt it very much

I think it is a bit too easy to laugh about that. It is not actually that long ago that the old firm employed players with certain religious affiliations only, and regarding homophobia - there are not very many gay professional players 'out' in the UK either.

Things is: fans want to identify with their teams. Zenit may be the deplorable end of that line of thinking. But when some Premiership clubs field teams composed entirely of foreign players, never mind having no players that went through the club's youth academy, then the identification with the team reduces to an identification with the badge - and a loyalty based on that alone is a rather brittle.

Well said Don x

Have to agree with Mr Roobles

Nicely said

"there are not very many gay professional players 'out' in the UK either."

There is not ONE. The sleaze broker Max Clifford has said he knows the names of several in-the-closet footballers, but he's not outed any (yet)

Interesting thing morality depending on the individual it can mean anything is justified.